ac7av tank build

[ac7av]

I didn’t have a problem until raising the salinity to try and grow some lps or sps corals in the tank. I’ve used the volcanic rock for years and its always worked great at eliminating nitrates. Its just something that’s not commonly used. Seachem also makes a synthetic version of this kind of rock for nitrate removal. Most of the rock in this system is volcanic rock of some sort from Hawaii. The lights could be an issue but I haven’t used the moon lights for months and the 50/50 pc bulbs are less then a year old but I will say I’ve thought the light didn’t look as bright as the 50/50 over my quarantine tank. I am in the process of updating the lights so maybe that will help. I do have one of my MH bulbs is drifting real bad. Sometimes is looks almost green. I’m going to changes them soon as I can.

Why do you think the volcanic rock is the source of nitrates? I have never had any nitrates detectable on the tests. I realize there is nitrates in the water but its under control and does not build up in the tank. The one thing I have always had a bit of a problem with is the phosphates in this setup and I’m sure it has something to do with the amount of fish waist in the tank. Its never high, just always detectable on the tests. Maybe I should try some phosphates remover stuff in my canister with the charcoal.

 

[Frankie]

Hello Erik,

Sumps are a great means for mechanical filtration not biological filtration. Just like bio balls used in a wet dry filter, the lava rock is a detritus trap. There is no way for the bacteria to filter out the heavy particulates being sent down to it. Detritus builds up in the crevices causing nitrates and phosphates to flourish.

The reason you do not read HIGH levels of nitrates is because the cyano bacteria is up-taking it. If the filtration was functioning properly in your system then you would read zero on a hanna nitrate test.
Seeing the fish you keep are high waste producers ( I see 6 alone in the pictures in your sig) Your volcano rock in your sump is more then likely packed pretty well with detritus and fish waste.

IT has been proven time and again that for a reef tank setup the rock in the display tank is used for biological filtration, and the sump is used for mechanical filtration the display tank cannot keep up with.

I bet if you removed the rock in your sump and that basket you would find an abundant amount of detritus and fish waste.
Frank.

 

[ac7av]

Even NSW has nitrates in it and you can never really have 0, it’s just a part of the cycle things. I’m confused about the breakdown of the waste in the tank. Isn’t the purpose of the rock to break it down? And the skimmer and water changes to remove the waste from the tank? I do have a lot of fish and a lot of rock. More so then most in a tank this size. Today I see only a small amount of cyano in the tank on some of the rock close to the water surface. I find this amount normal and just part of the process of things. By tomorrow I expect it will be gone almost completely. What is there is very dark almost black and disintegrating by the minute.

It is unlikely that I have much buildup in the lava rubble. Maybe around the edges of the bottom. The water is pretty turbulent and you could compare it to a large stock pot with a medium boil going one. The water flows from the bottom to the top where it then pours over the top lip of the bin into the sump area.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
The appearance of algae and/or cyanobacteria is result of excess nutrients (more import than export). A brief description of cyanobacteria can be found here from UC Berkeley:
Introduction to the Cyanobacteria
As you can read it is a survivor and has been around awhile

Small amounts of both are quite difficult to eliminate and commonly occur in nature. Cyanobacteria is most often found/grows in areas without enough flow where particulate matter such as detritus, uneaten food, and fish waste collect. It also prefers lower light areas and spectrum towards the red and yellow wavelengths (I have seen it die off in 24 hours with just new bulbs being installed).

High nutrient tanks typically have other types of algae growth that are more of a problem than cyano. Tanks that are very close to balanced (by this I mean import/export about equal) can have small amounts of stubborn cyano. A phosphate reactor/eliminator, adding or changing water flow, changing light bulbs, and reduced feedings, are the top items to try. Even with 0 ppm readings of nitrate & phosphate you can still have cyanobacteria. The cyano is just exporting the leftover nutrients that the rest of the system cannot export resulting in a 0 ppm reading.

So the goal is to make the environment unfavorable to the growth of algae and cyanobacteria.
In regards to the rock in the sump/refugium a simple test will let you know if it is trapping detritus. When you do a water change keep a few gallons of the old water in a bucket. Take a piece of rock or two from the sump and shake it vigorously in it. If very little matter is released it is not acting at a trap. If on the other hand the bucket has a eighth inch of detritus in the bottom you may have a problem.

Although sand sifting animals and cyano oxidizers will work temporarily, the best long term solution is to balance the import/export equation.

Regards,
Kevin
PS: For the home aquarium I target 77F +- 3F and 1.025 SPG/33.9 ppt.

 

[Krish]

Erik, on a really old setup of mine, I had a few rocks in my sump at one point and when I realized I couldn't get my nitrates to drop, I decided to remove those rocks and here's what I vaccumed out of the sump in the picture below and this was a sump that had about 700gph of flow running through it. As Frankie suggested, this can easily be a main source of your excess nutrients in your system. If you plan to keep any type of rock in your sump, you would need to clean/vaccum in there just as you would your main display or you'd end up with the same thing I had...A ton of waste/detritus settling in your sump which will do nothing more than degrade water quality.

 

[ac7av]

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/17832654?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&autoplay=1" width="424" height="240" frameborder="0"></iframe>

 

[Frankie]

Wouldn't want to be an algae in that tank!
Cool feeding frenzy ac7av

 

[ac7av]

Thanks
I was actually trying to figure out the new site settings and still can seem to get the video to work correctly. I know Scooter said he as going to look into it but that was before the big change so I didn’t worry about it too much. I accidently hit post instead fo preview when I was fooling around with the video here. Once you post you cant take it back so I just left the video and kept editing the post trying different settings. That was kind of a cool little video of them eating some algae on a clip. Not the same energy I see in them in the morning but still not too bad. I definitely don’t have a algae problem. They take good care of that if I do. I put a few rocks out of my brothers tank in that had hair algae 2 inches long on it and in a few days it was completely gonezo. I was suppressed it lasted that long but it wasn’t what they are use to eating.

 

[ac7av]

I got my new lights in yesterday and installed them. This always give the opportunity to clean the light fixture and boy was it dusty. It just amazes me on how dusty my house is. Anyway the UV lighting 03 super actinic lights are sweet. Those boys are bright and make the little color I have in my tank pop. I’m not sure about the Phoenix 14,00 metal halide lights yet. I know they need some time to break in but these things are almost as blue as the actinic lamps. I really mean it, not much difference at all and if this is how they are going to stay I think they will be short lived over my tank. I need more white and less blue. The tank has the blue bomb going off in it now. Way to blue. I will get a picture when I can but I think my wife took the camera to work today because the SD card is missing out of my computer and the camera is MIA.

 

[thatguy559]

let them burn in they will get whiter.

 

[Frankie]

Can't wait to see the pictures of the new lighting Erik!
What type of heating do you have in your house btw? Forced air?

 

[ac7av]

That’s right I forgot about the pictures. Ill get some later when the kids clear out.
I have central forced air heat. I use one of the Filtrete filters rated to 1200-2200 MPR, it’s the finest filter in the 1in that this company makes. It just doesn’t run enough to make a real difference in the dust in the house. My main problem with the dust is the hard surfaces in the house. I don’t have any carpeting and with 3 kids and a dog in and out 564 times a day with mud and dirt on them it collects in the house. The computers need to be cleaned every 6 months or so and the refrigerator coils need it even more. Anything that moves air collects tons of dust in my house.

 

[Frankie]

Hmm, Im a hard wood flooring specialist by trade. How do you clean the floors? You need to train the rugrats to take there shoes off. I know it is not easy, but after a week or so of riding them about it they will catch on.
If you haven't tried a Swifter yet you may want to. I like them so much I give them to customers as a gift at the end of the job. They really work and are fast and easy.
Don't waist your money on the high dollar filters. They do just as well as the cheap blue or green ones. The key is to change them out often. That is why they have a spot to date them. You would be surprised at how well they work if changed out on a regular basis.
BTW, I get mine from the local goodwill spot. they always have them.

 

[ac7av]

Well for us it wouldn’t really make a difference if the kits took there shoes off or not. Most of the time they are not warring any shoes. I’m not going to wipe the dogs feet every time he comes back in the house running after the kids. No kidding if the kids are not in and out the back door at least 100 times a day I would be shocked. I have a kid friendly house. All important electronic are mounted on the ceiling or high enough on the wall or on top of kitchen cabinets to keep them out of harms way. They are aloud to color on the walls of there bedrooms but not the main parts of the house but as you can image, sometimes they forget. The twins are 3 the oldest is 6, oh sorry the oldest is 20 and just as dirty. I guess that makes 4 kids and one dog. The inside of our fenced back yard also looks like an art project. They are also aloud to ride there bikes in the house. I actually like it. I grew up in navy housing and it sucks all the way around. Don’t leave a mark and don’t get anything dirty. I don’t ever plan on moving from this house but even if I did its nothing paint wont fix.

My brother works in the floor business and has for 15 years and sold me this floor that we have in the living room and all the bedrooms. He also pushes the swiffers at his store. The kitchen and laundry room has some cheep vinyl but one day I would like to get some of the new tile floors he has in his displays. I’m not sure what it is exactly but its not actual ceramic tile its something synthetic and supposable more durable and flexible. It lays like tile and gets grouted like tile but uses a epoxy type grout. I’m not sure exactly on it but its something like that. He says it good stuff and they put it mostly in high end homes.

IMO swiffers are a waist of time and money. I have one but if you want to smear dirt all around your floor evenly use a swiffer. If you have a small clean up job I’m sure its fine but for the big job of cleaning the entire place for get it. No one is every going to change the swiffer pad enough to do a good job. You would have to change it 10 times just in my living room alone to do a decent job. I use the Hoover floor mate. This is the best floor cleaner on the market IMO other then commercial ones that really remove the dirt from the floor, even out of the grain of the wood floor. Takes a little time but you should see the crap that thing sucks out of the floor and uses less water on the floor then the swiffer and floor cleaner because it sucks up 80% of what you put down. The floor is nearly dry when your done and definitely a lot cleaner.

So after the weekend and dinner I had a chance to really look things over on the lights to see what’s what. It seems that the lights are not pulling the power. I put the watt meter on them because I had noticed that the ballasts and light fixture didn’t seem as hot as with the last lights in it and the tank temp had been drifting down a bit. Sure enough these light are not pulling the power. Is this normal for new lights to not get up to power for a while. All 3 MH lights are only getting up to 160-170 watts. I put one of the old bulbs back in to confirm what was going on and sure enough it got up to 252 in no time. Its like the lights are not letting the ballast kick into the full power stage. Any thoughts on that? This would explain the very blue color from the lights and corals not really responding to the lights as I thought they mite.

 

[thatguy559]

are all your fixtures DE bulbs?

 

[ac7av]

Ya its DE bulbs

 

[thatguy559]

oh okay.....did they burn in yet? getting whiter? i know the phoenix bulbs are really blue kinda like 20k

 

[thatguy559]

do you have a watt meter on the ballast? how are you measuring it the wattage pulled?

 

[Frankie]

LOL! Yeah, sounds like your past the swifter stage
Sounds more like you need what I use, a mega back pack vac! Not cheap though.
Well, if your comfortable with it then I guess you will just need to deal with the dust. Personally, sounds like a happy lively home. I grew up in a home that reminds me of the one in the movie, The Goonies. Between my two siblings our friends and I it was constant turmoil.
Look forward to the pictures when you have the time.

 

[ac7av]

I have a UEI digital watt meter that reads average and peak watts, also currant, and voltage. It plugs in line with the ballast.

The lights look just as blue as the 20's I had before but they are notable not as bright and I see now why with the low wattage draw. I never tested the last two sets of bulbs for wattage draw when they were new to see if they were the same way. I have however watched these ballasts come up to pep output in what looks like 3 stages. There is a warm up that runs around 50-60 watts. Then after a few minutes you will see the wattage start going up to around 150-160 watts. At this point it usually doesn’t pause too long unless there is a problem or low voltage into the ballast. The wattage will rase up to 260 before dropping back down to around 250 and hold steady.