bryopsis help please.

[plack]

I can't see how kent marine tech would be better at killing the bryopsis and do not believe it is. It would cost a fortune to use this with a large tank as well !!


The results you speak of can happen with out any elevated levels at all.

I would not recommend going as High as 2300 ppm. Going that far has never been recommended anywhere else that I know of and could mess with the ionic balnce enoughp to cause problems (PH).



Paul

 

[matts125]

With regards to increasing magnesium to kill off bryopsis, there is general consensus that the only magnesium supplement which achieves the eradication of bryopsis is Kent Marine Tech-M. In my own experience -- took 2 years to kill it off -- the following manesium supplements did not work: Magnesium chloride and magnesium sulphate (epsom salts). What did knock it off for me was constant harvesting, raising Mg to 2300ppm with Tech-M, the ultimate attention to good husbandry practise, week long dark periods over an extended period of time, and eventually vodka dosing to rip into N and P although N was always neglible in my display. Phosphate testing with Saliphert always showed a colour but it sat <0.03ppm; recently using a photometer I found it to be 0.1ppm -- the source of fuel for the bryopsis

My tank has a couple of small patches of bryopsis still around but the rabbitfish and tangs are keeping it at bay whilst I persist with the vodka dosing.

HTH,

Tone

2300 PPM on magnesium? do you have corals (sps to be exact?) if so how did this effect your corals, also what about your fish and inverts such as shrimp and snails? I have never heard of anyone raising their mag that high before...

Matt

 

[Tone]

@ Plack ...

Do you have experience with this or is this just your speculation?

Anything can happen in reefing ... I've been doing this hobby since '93 ... because our understanding of the dynamics of aquaria is a mere drip in the ocean. Glide on over to RC and read some of the results achieved in relatively short durations. I battled bryopsis for almost 2 years with great attention to husbandry technique in my 500 gal reef including a monster 5' dual recirc beckett skimmer tuned to the hilt, very low fish load, and v.frequent 50% water changes. Until I switched to Kent Tech-M my struggle was going nowhere. You are more likely to get ionic imbalances using magflake or epsom salts, both of which, separately or in Randy's 5:3 blend, did not work in my case and other reported trials.

Can you expand on how this interfers with pH? My pH sits steady between 8.3 and 8.5, Ca 410ppm, and Alk 12.0 dKh

@ Matts125

Agree with you Matt, 2300ppm is v.high and I am working on slowly bringing this down to around 1800 ppm which is more in line with the majority of other users.

I can report absolutely no impact on any of my corals ... SPS, LPS and a little flubber. In fact, my sps is making a remarkable comeback after being decimated in the first few months of the bryopsis invasion.

In the main there is no visible impact on the fish either with the exception of the foxface which eats everything yet remains thin. I attribute this to the effects of previous dosing with epsom salts.

Tone

 

[Tone]

Here's some evidence ...

Skimmer:

sps:

lps:

fish:

and a little video:

 

[jnarowe]

nice clean tank room and I love the vid Tone. If you didn't see the ripples, you wouldn't know there';s water in that tank...maybe too clean? :lol:

 

[Tone]

^^ Ta, jnarowe ... feed corals with Tropic Marin Pro-Coral Zooton and a couple of other snake-oils. The turbulent water movement and the big clown wrasse does keep a fair amount of stuff in the water column.

 

[jnarowe]

it looks great to me!

 

[matts125]

looks great to me as well,


anyone know where the cheapest place to buy Kent tech-M is looks like it will take 2 gallons just to raise my level to 1800 ppm, so I will need like 7-8 gallons for the long haul!!

Matt

 

[NC2WA]

Matt,

When you find out, let me know. If the Mg chloride flakes and Epsom salt does not work, I will either cook my live rock OR see what 2 gallons of Kent Tech M costs. I am seeing alittle improvement, but I have sooo much algae on the rock, it is going to take a lot to knock it out. I rather not pull it, as spore may be released and the cycle continues.

Kirk

 

[matts125]

Matt,

When you find out, let me know. If the Mg chloride flakes and Epsom salt does not work, I will either cook my live rock OR see what 2 gallons of Kent Tech M costs. I am seeing alittle improvement, but I have sooo much algae on the rock, it is going to take a lot to knock it out. I rather not pull it, as spore may be released and the cycle continues.

Kirk

marine depot sells it for 20 each, maybe we can split shipping together?

PM me if interested...

Matt

 

[jnarowe]

and $19 at Custom Aquatic.

 

[Tone]

I bought 6 gallons but my Mg was already up there (1800 ppm) from dosing with magflake and epsom salts so it didn't need as much Tech-M. Nobody is saying, but it is evident that Tech-M has an ingredient that bryopsis doesn't like. Be mindful of your SG as you raise the Mg levels. If you can reduce SG to the lower end of the range (1.024) this might help as well as will higher pH around 8.4 / 8.5 .

Careful harvesting is a necessity ... pluck out the bryopsis and wash it off your hands in a bucket of freshwater before moving to the next clump. If you don't harvest and leave the dying bryopsis in the display, it will feed itself on the nutrients caused by the dying stalks. Also run carbon to clean up the gelbstoff caused by the bryopsis.

I'm not advocating vodka dosing, but I started vodka dosing towards the end of the bryopsis eradication process and I believe that this helped give it the big kick in the pants.

Whilst this bryopsis eradication does work, if your water parameters are not good it will return just as soon as you reduce your Mg back to normal levels. It is imperative that at the same time as Tech-M dosing you practise husbandry technique of the highest standard ... and then keep doing it

A last reminder is to ensure that you have a good quality skimmer and that it is properly tuned in ... running slightly wet to pull as much skimmate out as it can.

Good luck!

Tone

 

[NC2WA]

Shoot. I wish I had seen this B4 I bought the magflakes..

Matt, I will be in touch in a couple of days as I want to give the flakes some time before I make a decision.

thanks
kirk

 

[NC2WA]

If I were to use a pressure washer to remove all bryopsis from the rock. (that is, take the algae down to the bare rock), would I lose all benefical bacteria and have to re-seed the rock?

What would this do to the current corals that are in the tank? I only have one fish (orange diamond goby) and it is healthy.

I am tired of looking at an algae-filled tank, I want this stuff gone and more importantly want my tank back !!!

Any suggestions or ideas??

Thanks
Kirk

 

[matts125]

If I were to use a pressure washer to remove all bryopsis from the rock. (that is, take the algae down to the bare rock), would I lose all benefical bacteria and have to re-seed the rock?

What would this do to the current corals that are in the tank? I only have one fish (orange diamond goby) and it is healthy.

I am tired of looking at an algae-filled tank, I want this stuff gone and more importantly want my tank back !!!

Any suggestions or ideas??

Thanks
Kirk

if you wash with fresh water you will lose over 90% of everything living in the rock, then you will need to cycle it in a dark cantainer with a skimmer and lots of water flow with frequent water changes to re-cure the rock. this will take 3-6 weeks my friend!!

Matt

 

[NC2WA]

how can one use saltwater with a pressure washer?? is this even an option??

 

[matts125]

how can one use saltwater with a pressure washer?? is this even an option??

I never thought about doing that but i guess if you had a large amount of mixed water you could use a mag7 or larger with a garden hose adapter, just make sure the pressure washer has never used any cleaning detergents.
there is one thing I am unsure of however and that is the possability of metals in the washer contaminating the water and rock..

Matt

 

[jnarowe]

I just wouldn't even attempt this. And I am slightly insane, so that's saying a LOT.

 

[aquariumdebacle]

Trust yourself and ignore all this advice! Your tank looks great and you have a small problem with algae.

Go back to the basics. Add your fish back and feed them. Get a bigger protein skimmer and monitor your parameters weekly. Especially phosphate with a Merck test kit. You need to have levels at 0.05ppm which can only be measured with that specific kit.

What your real problem is that you have not had good nutrient export in the past. While you had bad habits phosphate was adsorbing onto the the calcareous material in the tank. That adsorbed material is now "unadsorbing" dissolving back into the system which the bryposis is feeding upon.

The way to fix this is through nutrient export. Water changes, algae filters (NOT Caulerpa species!) and all the other routine known basic matitenance facts that have bee established over the years. It may take many more months for the phosphate to leach out of the system but you should deal with export at the time of the design, not after it has been establish.

You have a good system and it is dealing well with your organisms. If you notice tuffs of algae coming off of the corals themselves, then you need to get drastic and aggressive with water changes and phosphate sponges.

 

[plack]

Tone,

As far as PH being affected I was remembering it can when its low in magnesium not high --SORRY !

I have had and do have bryopsis and have kept it under control by The same Methods you listed without elevated Magnesium which I have done but did not work for me.

The Magnesium Consentrate you mention was shown to me and if I recall it is nothing more than Off the shelf Magnesium Sulphate/Chloride--So it is Questionable What could be different about it !!!


I did say I thought 2300 was high and later you AGREED it was a bit.

As far as it being toxic at 2300 PPM You can't prove it will or won't as There is only test done with allot more mag to see if it killed things.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm

"Bingman12 pointed out in a previous article that at elevated concentrations (>8,000 ppm), magnesium has been used as an aid in shucking oysters, helping to force the oyster open,12-14 and also as an anesthetic for them.12 ****Consequently, magnesium does have potentially negative biological effects at significantly elevated concentrations."

Here is an where I get the idea of the balance being distorted---As I understand things Calcium will precipitate without magnesium and the saturation point or amount of Calcium is lowered.

(http://www.fishchannel.com/saltwate...ums/aquarium-frontiers/calciums-little-sister)

Now if the Reverse is true And I can't see how it would not be-- The elevated magnesium levels would mess with the balance-Possably causing the Coarls to Change the levels they absorb calcium and carbonate and making it harder for them to do so(wouldn't they then need more elevated Calcium??). And at some point I would Imagine it eventually harms the process of coral growth and obviously if high enoughp if becomes anesthetic like.

So Thats what I know-- and What My Opinion's Are --And Why I think It's Not a good thing to go as High as 2300 PPM.

If you had said 1800 PPM I probably would not thought as Much about it Having myself Gone to around 1600 For 4 months !!!!!! ( I did not pay attention to growth at that time compared to now--wish I did)



Paul


P.S. Aquarium debacle

"Get a bigger protein skimmer "

My You have not seen his LARGE skimmer have you !! It's Massive--Now he may overfeed but his Skimmer is well Big Enoughp !!!