DonW
R.I.P.
Most anything airborne around your house would be taken up by carbon. Metals like copper would take alot to kill clams, so much that you would know it.
Don
Clamtastrophe
- Thread starter TWallace
- Start date
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Most anything airborne around your house would be taken up by carbon. Metals like copper would take alot to kill clams, so much that you would know it.
Don
DonW
R.I.P.
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
"spot testing?"
I already told you in my first reply, Alk spiked. You don't think that could hurt them and leave the rest of the tank untouched? If it wasn't alk, some clam specific disease. Salifort brand: Ca, Alk, Mg, NH3, NO2, NO3, PO3, PH, plus Milwaukie PH meter
Perhaps send some water to a lab?
I already told you in my first reply, Alk spiked. You don't think that could hurt them and leave the rest of the tank untouched? If it wasn't alk, some clam specific disease. Salifort brand: Ca, Alk, Mg, NH3, NO2, NO3, PO3, PH, plus Milwaukie PH meter
Perhaps send some water to a lab?
Jan
Well-known member
The second section of this article is about pinched mantle disease:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/jf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/jf/index.php
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
I hate to blame unproven theories, but am heading toward leaning on that one too. They all were happy, then within a couple weeks of adding the small deresa from a local fish store, they all folded. The deresa was next to a maxima at the store that looked pretty bad. Nothing else in my very packed reef showed any signs of distress and the many varied snails are all doing great. Barrys clam forum has many discussions on the topic. Here is one:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7262&highlight=pinched+mantle
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7262&highlight=pinched+mantle
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Jan
Well-known member
This is an interesting post on that thread:
jesseb
Well-known member
what I've been seeing doesn't necessarily look like pinched mantle - there has been a general contraction of the entire mantle - the clams simply isn't opening up normally...
I to think there is some kind of pathogen impacting them - though I'd like to understand the source......
I to think there is some kind of pathogen impacting them - though I'd like to understand the source......
TWallace
Well-known member
Thanks to everyone for all the responses. I've seen many good suggestions. I posted the same thread on RC and got much less useful advice. Someone on there is even claiming that it's definitely one of my angels that caused it. Despite the fact that my flame angel has been in the tank a year and a half (almost as long as the derasa, and longer than any of the other clams) and doesn't peck at any of them. My coral beauty is a new addition, after most of the clams had died.
There was a day about a year ago when my flame angel pecked at all 3 of my croceas for an entire day, but the following day he left them alone and hasn't touched them again since. If he was pecking at them, I would definitely see it.
There was a day about a year ago when my flame angel pecked at all 3 of my croceas for an entire day, but the following day he left them alone and hasn't touched them again since. If he was pecking at them, I would definitely see it.
DonW
R.I.P.
The biggest problem with PM is that no one knows anything about it or even for sure that it even exist. It gets blamed for most hobbiest clam deaths because its the easiest answer. All we know as of now is that two labs believe that it is extracellular protozoan. What we dont know if this particular protozoan is even the cause or if its simply the stress induced hit on the clams normal immune system. Ive never believed that it was or is as wide spread as hobbiest make it out to be. I think if it really were as prominent as all the "reported" cases that the ocean itself would show signs.
As this thread has show more times than not when these threads come up we hear. My tank parameter are perfect all the bad is 0 the rest are within spec so none of these could be the issue.
It takes digging deep and spending alot of time, energy and sometimes money to get a reasonable explanation for mystery death.
Don
I can not spend a lot of time on this now but the lab we have been working with has identified the parasite. Now they are trying to see where is comes from and how better treat it. When the results are completed, then we will post something on a online magazine or other publication.
There is not just one supplier, dealer, or LFS that has had problems with Pinched Mantle. It is world wide. We have received emails from all over the world asking about this. PM has been around for over 7 years now.
Spawning in most cases is triggered by stress and after the spawn some of the clams will die due to the exreme energy it takes to spawn. I think that is what caused your clam/s to die.
There is not just one supplier, dealer, or LFS that has had problems with Pinched Mantle. It is world wide. We have received emails from all over the world asking about this. PM has been around for over 7 years now.
Spawning in most cases is triggered by stress and after the spawn some of the clams will die due to the exreme energy it takes to spawn. I think that is what caused your clam/s to die.
If you haven't already, I'd suggest posting this entire thread on Barry's www.clamsdirect.com forum.
Just want to share my experience with one of my maxima clam kill by an angel. I use to have two angel (Lemon peel & Flame). Both have been good fish without distrubing my corals for 1/2 a year until one day i discover my clams being stress and i started to investigate.
I even did a FW dipped and cause the maxima to spawn (actually that clam was already at a very stress state)
Finally, i found out it was my lemon peel nipping at the clam once or twice a day and cuase the clam to be stress without any good chance to grow. It maybe an isolated case but i'm sure that angel do like to peck here and there making coral stress with their presence. They will slowly refuse to open wide to gather enough food
( I therefore "presume" that even pecking once a day without actually targeting will also cause stress to clams).
I could be wrong and just sharing a different thought.
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DonW
R.I.P.
Just want to share my experience with one of my maxima clam kill by an angel. I use to have two angel (Lemon peel & Flame). Both have been good fish without distrubing my corals for 1/2 a year until one day i discover my clams being stress and i started to investigate.
I even did a FW dipped and cause the maxima to spawn (actually that clam was already at a very stress state)
Finally, i found out it was my lemon peel nipping at the clam once or twice a day and cuase the clam to be stress without any good chance to grow. It maybe an isolated case but i'm sure that angel do like to peck here and there making coral stress with their presence. They will slowly refuse to open wide to gather enough food
( I therefore "presume" that even pecking once a day without actually targeting will also cause stress to clams).
I could be wrong and just sharing a different thought.
Makes sense. Clams use energy to close their shell or keep it partially closed. Eventually they run out if not given time to spread out and relax.
Don
jesseb
Well-known member
Did FW dips on all 4 clams tonight (R/O - 76.3 degrees (tank 75.9) and pH 8.2 in both....
the Croceas all look happier already... we'll see how they fare tomorrow... one of them had just started to spawn when I put it in the FW.
The Maxima looks like it's too late........
the Croceas all look happier already... we'll see how they fare tomorrow... one of them had just started to spawn when I put it in the FW.
The Maxima looks like it's too late........
barrierreefcf
Sponsor
Yeah we had a clam that was over 2 years old die in the display a few weeks after we had few die that were just brought in. Systems tied together. Maybe a connection there, but it doesn't explain both clams in the Elos tank dying a couple weeks later (seperate system). Barry...we need to know about the pathogens life cycle and transmission methods!! Publish publish
We are also having a growing number of customers, most of whom have not purchased clams from us, report that they are slowly losing clams. This has been happening over the past two months. Many have had their clams for years and seem to have had stable water chemistry/temp. Some have not added anything new for quite a while. Hope we all can get to the bottom of this.
We are also having a growing number of customers, most of whom have not purchased clams from us, report that they are slowly losing clams. This has been happening over the past two months. Many have had their clams for years and seem to have had stable water chemistry/temp. Some have not added anything new for quite a while. Hope we all can get to the bottom of this.
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Thanks for the input Cy. My clams came from many different experienced reefers locally and many were good sized croceas. The deresa I mentioned which appeared quite healthy at the time, came from your tank. Once the first large clam spawned and died, they all followed suit until tonight when the last deresa also folded. Not one snail, shrimp, coral, fish, nor any pods are struggling. 100% of everything else, softys, pom-pom xenia, starfish, etc etc etc is propagating and thriving. Something specific took ALL my clams out and left everything else intact and growing. No algae problem, running a good CaRx and keeping PH steady with a little Kalk in the RODI water top off. Fuge on at night helps keep PH flat. Temp steady with controller/heaters/chiller, running carbon, hundreds of pounds of rock, sand bed, no carnivores, no pyramid snails, no major changes. Clueless in Seattle...
jesseb
Well-known member
airborne pathogens?
DonW
R.I.P.
I doubt that most airborne pathogens would survive after landing on the surface of saltwater. Bacterias, fungus, actinomycetes are a few examples of airborne pathogens all of which have their own unique needs in order to survive. Then you have the bacterial army we have in our tanks that may or may not just consume a less dominant bacteria.
Carbon is going to take care of cleaning chemicals and perfumes typical used around the house.
I would be interested to find out how many if any that have had a mystery death run ozone or uv.
Don
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
No Ozone nor UV, but planning on getting Ozone after this one.
jesseb
Well-known member
Looks like two clams down - the Maxima and one of the Croceas...
I have about 1 1/2 quarts of carbon on the tank.
No ozone or uv.
I have about 1 1/2 quarts of carbon on the tank.
No ozone or uv.
