Clamtastrophe

[jesseb]

May be more realistic than you think. If the clam is weak and dieing they are funky. A fish would see this as dinner.

Don

Yep - certainly would. That said, why 3 out of 4 clams suddenly be weak and dying (rather than all 4)? I'd also expect to see signs of nipping on the mantel - something I don't see on either of the two croceas that are left (one of which was closed up until the FW dip).

 

[DonW]

Yep - certainly would. That said, why 3 out of 4 clams suddenly be weak and dying (rather than all 4)? I'd also expect to see signs of nipping on the mantel - something I don't see on either of the two croceas that are left (one of which was closed up until the FW dip).

Fish bites are sometimes very hard to see. especially on blues and pruples. Take a look at the bisal's especially on the crocea's. Were they stuck real good to a rock before you pulled them for a dip.

Don

 

[jesseb]

Fish bites are sometimes very hard to see. especially on blues and pruples. Take a look at the bisal's especially on the crocea's. Were they stuck real good to a rock before you pulled them for a dip.

Don

All were well stuck to their holding places - I don't put them directly on their rocks - either other clam shells or smaller rocks to make them moveable.

 

[TWallace]

When my flame angel bothered my croceas a little over a year ago, he bothered all 3 croceas, but never touched the derasa. So I do think it's completely feasible for an angel to only bother certain species of clams. I doubt it's related to the color of the clam, but more likely the species.

Last night I put my derasa in the refugium of my display tank. It was in my QT and was doing great. So far it still looks fine in the refugium. I think I'll leave it there for a while to make sure it's fully recovered, then try reintroducing it to the display. Dang tells me he's had fire shrimp bother his clams (only at night). I do have fire shrimp that are very secretive in the day time. If I do get the derasa back in the display eventually, I'll keep an eye on them after lights go out.

 

[jesseb]

But - I had 3 croceas and a maxima - maxima and 1 crocea dead... two croceas left.... Don't get me wrong, if it's the angel he'll be gone... but I'm hard pressed to see how the angel is being that selective... my experience has generally been all or nothing with them...

When my flame angel bothered my croceas a little over a year ago, he bothered all 3 croceas, but never touched the derasa. So I do think it's completely feasible for an angel to only bother certain species of clams. I doubt it's related to the color of the clam, but more likely the species.

Last night I put my derasa in the refugium of my display tank. It was in my QT and was doing great. So far it still looks fine in the refugium. I think I'll leave it there for a while to make sure it's fully recovered, then try reintroducing it to the display. Dang tells me he's had fire shrimp bother his clams (only at night). I do have fire shrimp that are very secretive in the day time. If I do get the derasa back in the display eventually, I'll keep an eye on them after lights go out.

 

[mojoreef]

If you add anything to your tank, a new clam, a new fish, new LR, new LS you run the risk of introducing a pred. And preds can be microscopic (most are). So tough call, Alot of the holding houses (where the mass majority of stuff comes from) have open systems and pathogens/pred can spread easy.

mike

 

[skinz78]

Imagine your angels as a wolf preying on a herd of elk. They kill the weakest first.

 

[slither75]

Jesse, let me start by saying that I have no experience with clams and am trying to do as much research as I can before setting up my first tank. I understand why you think it might be something other than the flame angel, but taking the angel out of the tank IMO seems to be easy (as compared to finding some microscopic problem) and a quick answer to whether or not he/she is the problem.

I like the flame angels and clams and was planning on having both when I get my set up complete. I now question whether or not this is a good idea. If you were to do remove the angel and find out that it is him, then it would change my setup idea. If it wasn't him, then I might still think about it after doing some more research of course!

 

[jesseb]

Hey Mike -

How the *H* are ya?

That's just it - nothing new in the tank for months... long, incubation for something to decide to pop it's ugly head..... if I added something and a week or two later is one thing, but months?

If you add anything to your tank, a new clam, a new fish, new LR, new LS you run the risk of introducing a pred. And preds can be microscopic (most are). So tough call, Alot of the holding houses (where the mass majority of stuff comes from) have open systems and pathogens/pred can spread easy.

mike

 

[jesseb]

Catching a 1 1/2" angel in a 400 Gal tank isn't quite that simple

I'll keep an eye on it and see, but I don't believe it's the angel - he'd likely be nipping on all clams, not one or another of them - I can't see him being selective.

I'm actually more concerned whether I introduced something feeding them than anything else.... if I mess up - shame on me... in this case, I have no warning signs of anything bad... just went bad very quickly....

Jesse, let me start by saying that I have no experience with clams and am trying to do as much research as I can before setting up my first tank. I understand why you think it might be something other than the flame angel, but taking the angel out of the tank IMO seems to be easy (as compared to finding some microscopic problem) and a quick answer to whether or not he/she is the problem.

I like the flame angels and clams and was planning on having both when I get my set up complete. I now question whether or not this is a good idea. If you were to do remove the angel and find out that it is him, then it would change my setup idea. If it wasn't him, then I might still think about it after doing some more research of course!

 

[skinz78]

can any of the people that are haveing problems post some pic's of thier sick clams? we may be dealing with a few different problems here.

 

[TWallace]

Unfortunately I didn't take pics of my clams as they were dying and my derasa still currently looks 100% healthy in my refugium. I think I've ruled out water quality and disease at this point. It's gotta be some animal in the tank bothering it. I still don't think it's my flame angel though because I never saw him peck at them, and he has done it before and did it many times in plain sight (over a year ago). Dang thinks it could be fire shrimp at night, and that would explain why I never see anything bother them.

 

[jesseb]

I didn't take any photos either, I'm afraid. Since the FW dip, the two remaining clams (one of which was clearly not extending fully) are extending well...

I don't have any fire shrimp - and aren't aware of any other predators (angel aside) that could be in the tank. Both of these clams that remain have been in the tank over a year (one 2 1/2 years).

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Fire shrimp are considered predators?

 

[tamarindthai]

Fire shrimp are considered predators?

see,,Tom ,,that what i'm try to telling you like i say it start to move my baby max around for the last several nights,,thanks Mike to mention that too,,my fire schrimp is huge it can move little piece of rock around and also had been stealing my frag.:evil:

 

[mojoreef]

Hiya Jessie.. their are lots of things to concider on the time frame. Pathogens parasite could come in at a dormant stage (some canstay dormant for decades) or things could take time to build up a population large enough to make an impact on a clam.

If their is concideration on a fish pred just isolate the clam, as in build a basket out of that white light cover stuff (name escapes me, little white square, goes over flour lighting fixtures??) that would keep the fish off it and still allow normal conditions for the clam.


Mike

 

[jesseb]

Good points.. this just frustrates the crap out of me...

Egg crate... I suspect that's what you're talking about... I can try that - thought I still don't think it's the angel.....

Hiya Jessie.. their are lots of things to concider on the time frame. Pathogens parasite could come in at a dormant stage (some canstay dormant for decades) or things could take time to build up a population large enough to make an impact on a clam.

If their is concideration on a fish pred just isolate the clam, as in build a basket out of that white light cover stuff (name escapes me, little white square, goes over flour lighting fixtures??) that would keep the fish off it and still allow normal conditions for the clam.


Mike

 

[skinz78]

Hey Jesseb here is one other cheap option for clam isolation. Take a clear plastic bottle preferrably 2 litre. Cut it in half, fill it with 1/4" holes for water circulation. Place the clam in an open spot in the sand. Then put the bottle over the clam to shield it from your angel. If the clam opens up and stays open you then know it is your angel or at least something else nipping at your clam.

 

[jesseb]

Unfortunately - the third one has died - bummer. The other clam still seems to be fine.

Water chemisry has checked out fine...

Skins78 - I've attached a photo of the last sick clam...

 

[DonW]

Unfortunately - the third one has died - bummer. The other clam still seems to be fine.

Water chemisry has checked out fine...

Skins78 - I've attached a photo of the last sick clam...

How old is that clam and how long has it been in your tank? In the pic there is NO sign of recent growth. Is it the pic?

Don