DonW
R.I.P.
I wouldnt give the angel that much credit just yet. It may just be the fact that he's the only fish and there is no need to compete for food. I assume your feeding him while in the qt.
Don
Don
Clamtastrophe
- Thread starter TWallace
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TWallace
Well-known member
Yes, I've been feeding him. Think I should cut back and see if he starts bothering the clam? It should be noted that this isn't a standard, barren QT. It's got live rock and as a result, a small population of mysis and amphipods. The flame angel is likely getting a good amount of food just from that.
DonW
R.I.P.
I dont know if that would help or not. Would be nice to find something concrete before putting the clam back. Id probably put the clam back in the display after hes been looking good for awhile. Leave the angel in qt then give it some time see what happens. If all goes well put the angel back. If the clam then starts doing poorly, spear the angel.
Don
skinz78
clam guy!
I don't know that fireshrimp are predatory I just read in one of TWallace's posts that he saw the shrimp picking at the clam. Wich makes him a suspect to me.
I also agree with Donw. don't rule the angel out. And I also know that there is one more angel but was added recently. It is still a suspect to me.
TWallace
Well-known member
Yeah, there is a coral beauty in the display. It's already become comfortable with the trap I put in the tank and I could easily catch it and put it in the refugium. That way both angels would be out of the display and I could put the clam back in and see if something is still bothering it. I may do that this weekend.
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
I had a coral beauty that was reef safe for years, then developed a taste for corals and clams.
skinz78
clam guy!
If I only had a dollar for every time I have heard that statement about angels. I would have the nicest 1000g tank fully stocked with clams of course.
skinz78
clam guy!
how's the derasa now?
TWallace
Well-known member
After a week or so in QT together, the flame angel started pecking at the exhale siphon of the derasa, so I had to separate them and now I'm selling the flame angel. I tried putting the derasa back in the display but there the coral beauty started bothering it. So, now the derasa is back in the refugium and looking strong again.
I'll probably have to sell the coral beauty as well, but it looks like he's developing HLLE (weird scar marks around his eyes on both sides), so there's probably not going to be many people interested in buying him. Maybe I can cure him, then sell him. I've never had to deal with HLLE before. I know I've read it may be caused by inadequate diet and/or stray voltage in the tank.
I'll probably have to sell the coral beauty as well, but it looks like he's developing HLLE (weird scar marks around his eyes on both sides), so there's probably not going to be many people interested in buying him. Maybe I can cure him, then sell him. I've never had to deal with HLLE before. I know I've read it may be caused by inadequate diet and/or stray voltage in the tank.
Jan
Well-known member
That's a bummer, Tom. What do you feed your fish? Is HLLE diet-related?
I visited a friend of mine last week and learn that he manage to keep his personifier angel with 3 clams for a year already in a 90gal SPS tank. According to him, he only feed pellets with autofeeder (no other food) and he did that in QT tank for 3mths to make the angel forget about meaty foods before introducing him to display tank. This sounds logical to me but i will not be tempted to take such risk. I did check his clams and see very solid growth (we bought the same batch 1-2" Clams last month.)
You might want to try while curing the coral beauty (just sharing what i saw)
You might want to try while curing the coral beauty (just sharing what i saw)
Last edited:
TWallace
Well-known member
I feed a wide variety of food including formula flake and pellet, frozen cyclopeeze, freeze dried cyclopeeze, chopped mussel, chopped prawn and several kinds of Ocean Nutrition brand frozen food.
Coincidence that clams are dying 3 weeks after adding new clams?
Scoop on tank:
155 gallon w/3 400W MH, actinics, 30 gallon sump, 10 gallon fuge, DAS skimmer.
H20 parameters:
Salinity: 1.025
PH: 8.1 - 8.3 (24 hr reading)
Calcium: 375
Alk: 3.5
Nitrates: 0
Ammonia: 0
Phosphate: 0
I bought 2 beautiful crocea clams from a reputable on-line source. One looked great within a day, the other never did open completely. Within a week the unhappy clam died, about 7 days later the 2nd one that was fully opened/reactive to light started staying only partially opened for about a week (except at night, it opened up more), it died few days later.
Within 2-3 days our 2.5 " maxima that we've had about 3 months died with no signs that it wasn't happy, except that it suddenly fell over on its side in the sand bed one day and I set it back up, it was still reacting to light and being moved, but the next day it was dead when I got home. (I'd tried putting it on a rock several time, but it seemed to prefer the sand and was happy there for 2+ months). Our brown maxima, that was securely anchored to a rock, followed a couple days later, but we got it out of the tank as soon as it retracted into it's shell and we could tell it wouldn't make it.
Now the crocea we have on the sand bed is spawning, but is at least responsive to the camera flash. Two other croceas are near each other on the rocks, one is still fairly open and responsive (though not as much as when it was fully "happy"), the other only partially open and not responsive to flash. 4th crocea is at other end of tank and is also non-responsive to camera flash and partially open. They all seem to open up more at night. Three of the four croceas left we've had for about a year, the one at the end of the tank for about 7 months.
We did a 30 gallon water change right after the two new croceas died (and before the 2 maximas died) and the croceas seemed to open a bit more after that, doing another 30 gallons change tomorrow (Saturday) since they are again only partially open.
We have a 5th clam - (Derasa) on the sand bed and it seems to be doing just fine, as are our SPS and snails, we're still seeing baby turbo snails cruising on the underside of our live rock.
So, is this a freak coincidence that the one coral beauty angel we've had for a year decided to start picking on all of our clams right about the time we got the new ones (even tho' we've never seen it do so, even at night)?
If we wanted to try a fresh water dip (feasible for the one in the sand bed at least), how long should we dip? The others clams are securely anchored to their rocks. I'll post some photos...
Scoop on tank:
155 gallon w/3 400W MH, actinics, 30 gallon sump, 10 gallon fuge, DAS skimmer.
H20 parameters:
Salinity: 1.025
PH: 8.1 - 8.3 (24 hr reading)
Calcium: 375
Alk: 3.5
Nitrates: 0
Ammonia: 0
Phosphate: 0
I bought 2 beautiful crocea clams from a reputable on-line source. One looked great within a day, the other never did open completely. Within a week the unhappy clam died, about 7 days later the 2nd one that was fully opened/reactive to light started staying only partially opened for about a week (except at night, it opened up more), it died few days later.
Within 2-3 days our 2.5 " maxima that we've had about 3 months died with no signs that it wasn't happy, except that it suddenly fell over on its side in the sand bed one day and I set it back up, it was still reacting to light and being moved, but the next day it was dead when I got home. (I'd tried putting it on a rock several time, but it seemed to prefer the sand and was happy there for 2+ months). Our brown maxima, that was securely anchored to a rock, followed a couple days later, but we got it out of the tank as soon as it retracted into it's shell and we could tell it wouldn't make it.
Now the crocea we have on the sand bed is spawning, but is at least responsive to the camera flash. Two other croceas are near each other on the rocks, one is still fairly open and responsive (though not as much as when it was fully "happy"), the other only partially open and not responsive to flash. 4th crocea is at other end of tank and is also non-responsive to camera flash and partially open. They all seem to open up more at night. Three of the four croceas left we've had for about a year, the one at the end of the tank for about 7 months.
We did a 30 gallon water change right after the two new croceas died (and before the 2 maximas died) and the croceas seemed to open a bit more after that, doing another 30 gallons change tomorrow (Saturday) since they are again only partially open.
We have a 5th clam - (Derasa) on the sand bed and it seems to be doing just fine, as are our SPS and snails, we're still seeing baby turbo snails cruising on the underside of our live rock.
So, is this a freak coincidence that the one coral beauty angel we've had for a year decided to start picking on all of our clams right about the time we got the new ones (even tho' we've never seen it do so, even at night)?
If we wanted to try a fresh water dip (feasible for the one in the sand bed at least), how long should we dip? The others clams are securely anchored to their rocks. I'll post some photos...
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Perhaps the clam is being eaten by otherwise and previously reef-safe angels, as it is already dying.
Sorry to hear of the loss. Have seen this recently too often and more than ever before for the "authorities" to shrug it all off as bad clam-keeping looking for an excuse
Photos of clams
You can see the obvious new growth on the 1 year clams since we purchased them. All were happy and growing like mad up until we added new ones...
1st photo is 1 year in tank that isn't reactive to light.
2nd photo is other 1 year in tank that is still okay reacting to light, but not as extended as usual (1st clam is in background).
3rd photo is the newer (7 months) clam on rock at far end of tank that isn't reactive to light, but opens up at night.
4th photo is clam on sand bed that is spawning, but is still very reactive to light so far.
In addition to a dosing pump for Alk and Calc, we dose Iodine and Strontium and conservatively add supplements Salifert Trace Hard and Trace Soft.
Food for corals/fish is a varied:
San Francisco Bay Frozen, rinsed, 4 pack variety frozen food
Frozen Cyclopeze
Coral Accel 30-40 ml ~ weekly
Microvert every few weeks instead of Coral Accel
You can see the obvious new growth on the 1 year clams since we purchased them. All were happy and growing like mad up until we added new ones...
1st photo is 1 year in tank that isn't reactive to light.
2nd photo is other 1 year in tank that is still okay reacting to light, but not as extended as usual (1st clam is in background).
3rd photo is the newer (7 months) clam on rock at far end of tank that isn't reactive to light, but opens up at night.
4th photo is clam on sand bed that is spawning, but is still very reactive to light so far.
In addition to a dosing pump for Alk and Calc, we dose Iodine and Strontium and conservatively add supplements Salifert Trace Hard and Trace Soft.
Food for corals/fish is a varied:
San Francisco Bay Frozen, rinsed, 4 pack variety frozen food
Frozen Cyclopeze
Coral Accel 30-40 ml ~ weekly
Microvert every few weeks instead of Coral Accel
skinz78
clam guy!
What kind of fish and inverts do you have?
Angel fish are notorious for snapping and then nipping clams, if you have one I would remove it asap.
I myself am currently trying to evict my snowflake eel that decided to snap and killed my most favorite clam.
Angel fish are notorious for snapping and then nipping clams, if you have one I would remove it asap.
I myself am currently trying to evict my snowflake eel that decided to snap and killed my most favorite clam.
Thanks Mike, we're pretty bummed, I've been pretty lucky the last 9 years and had attributed the success (until now) to keeping a diligent eye on water parameters. Sucks to watch this and feel so helpless.
Any recommendations on if a fresh water dip will help or if it is just a band-aid? If so, how long should we dip them? We don't have a quarintine tank (my bad), but are currently building a new house that will have an in-wall 268 gallon tank, with a dedicated "fish" room behind. We will most definitely have a separate quarantine tank when the houes is done in May, but that sure doesn't do me a d@m bit of good now! :-(
Attached is a photo of what the Crocea that is on the sand bottom used to look like on a regular basis... as you can see, the mantles were quite extended and the health and growth of the corals in the rest of the tank was and is still good, with lots of new branches and polyp extension.
Any recommendations other than finding a quarantine tank?
Any recommendations on if a fresh water dip will help or if it is just a band-aid? If so, how long should we dip them? We don't have a quarintine tank (my bad), but are currently building a new house that will have an in-wall 268 gallon tank, with a dedicated "fish" room behind. We will most definitely have a separate quarantine tank when the houes is done in May, but that sure doesn't do me a d@m bit of good now! :-(
Attached is a photo of what the Crocea that is on the sand bottom used to look like on a regular basis... as you can see, the mantles were quite extended and the health and growth of the corals in the rest of the tank was and is still good, with lots of new branches and polyp extension.
Any recommendations other than finding a quarantine tank?
livestock
Livestock =
Yellow tang, powder brown tang, 6 line wrasse, spotted dragonet, yellow wrasse, 2 black perc clowns, yellow watchman gobie, purple pseudo, purple dart fish, Coral beauty angel ! , 4 chromies, 1 comical Midas Blenny (if you don't have one, you should get one!).
5 serpent star fish, 2 peppermint shrimp, 1 scarlet shrimp, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 pistol shrimp, 1 sea cucumber, 1 tuxedo urchin, bunches of hermit crabs (scarlet), assorted turbo snails, nascar (nascarius) snails, cerith snails, and golden astre snails. Oh, and a couple chitons have been spotted on the rocks lately.
Livestock =
Yellow tang, powder brown tang, 6 line wrasse, spotted dragonet, yellow wrasse, 2 black perc clowns, yellow watchman gobie, purple pseudo, purple dart fish, Coral beauty angel ! , 4 chromies, 1 comical Midas Blenny (if you don't have one, you should get one!).
5 serpent star fish, 2 peppermint shrimp, 1 scarlet shrimp, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 pistol shrimp, 1 sea cucumber, 1 tuxedo urchin, bunches of hermit crabs (scarlet), assorted turbo snails, nascar (nascarius) snails, cerith snails, and golden astre snails. Oh, and a couple chitons have been spotted on the rocks lately.
skinz78
clam guy!
You have quite a few suspects actually so here go's
These fish are known to nip mantles to make the clam close and reveal food under the mantle. To sum it up, tangs, wrasses, and blennies.
These are known to pick at clams, angels, pistol shrimp, and cleaner shrimp.
I think you have a fish that is doing the damage. Shrimp tend to take chunks when they attack.
It is hard to say if you would see damage, sometimes you do sometimes you don't.
one thing you can do is take a plastic bottle and cut it in half. Next fill it with 1/4" holes for water circulation. Then place the clam inside of the bottle cut side down in the sand. This should protect the clam from the fish and if you see it open up and act normal again say within 48 hrs you then know it is a fish causing the problem.
I post Alot over on reef central and we see on avg 2 angels nipping at clams a week so I am highly suspecting the angel first. Even if it isn't the culprit it will be soon so I recommend removing it asap. Just the other day there was someone with a cleaner wrasse nipping "with no signs of bites" the mantle to reveal food. The person caught the wrasse and within an hour or so the clam was normal again.
In a bad way I got lucky, I was watching my tank and actually witnessed my snowflake eel swim up to my very blue dot squamosa and rip its gills out. So in a lucky way I knew who the culprit was. That was 2 weeks ago, I have been eel fishing ever since.
Most likely you will never see the culprit doing the crime, they know when you are watching.
These fish are known to nip mantles to make the clam close and reveal food under the mantle. To sum it up, tangs, wrasses, and blennies.
These are known to pick at clams, angels, pistol shrimp, and cleaner shrimp.
I think you have a fish that is doing the damage. Shrimp tend to take chunks when they attack.
It is hard to say if you would see damage, sometimes you do sometimes you don't.
one thing you can do is take a plastic bottle and cut it in half. Next fill it with 1/4" holes for water circulation. Then place the clam inside of the bottle cut side down in the sand. This should protect the clam from the fish and if you see it open up and act normal again say within 48 hrs you then know it is a fish causing the problem.
I post Alot over on reef central and we see on avg 2 angels nipping at clams a week so I am highly suspecting the angel first. Even if it isn't the culprit it will be soon so I recommend removing it asap. Just the other day there was someone with a cleaner wrasse nipping "with no signs of bites" the mantle to reveal food. The person caught the wrasse and within an hour or so the clam was normal again.
In a bad way I got lucky, I was watching my tank and actually witnessed my snowflake eel swim up to my very blue dot squamosa and rip its gills out. So in a lucky way I knew who the culprit was. That was 2 weeks ago, I have been eel fishing ever since.
Most likely you will never see the culprit doing the crime, they know when you are watching.
