Cone Skimmer thread, up for Discussion!

[luke33]

No. Just the askoll. I'm sure the sicce models are great, but i've had plenty of sicce's. I like the askoll's just because there's never any fuss and there silent. Then again the sicce's ran as pw's are excellent.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok I am lost, what makes this a good skimmer??


Mike

 

[Skimmy]

OMG....IT LIVES!!!!!!

what up mike

well, what make the cone skimmers good is that they are by design, a f'ing foam cannon that consume less watts. me and luke bantering about minor issues shouldnt deter anyone from trying them out if your in the market for a good skimmer.
all of them (except the KZ cone) are great performers comparared to regular cylinder skimmers.
i personally am likeing the WM cones best because of all the different little nice features he built into it; gate valve for fine adjustment, nice mods to the sicce pump, his new bubble ring... but the ATB and SWC cones are great skimmers too. and, there are more cones on the way....

 

[mojoreef]

Hey now

No not looking for one, I just saw the thread so I took a peek. To be honest I cant see what makes them worth while, no dwell time and no bombardment rate. Looks like they make alot of foam, but that not really the concept of skimming...

enlighten me


Mike

 

[Reefdaddy1]

I have to agree Mike, I would like to know what makes so much better then a cylinder type?

 

[mojoreef]

Well I'm not sure if it makes them better, but most skimmers (specially in this trade) kind of trottle down (get narrow) as they go up, this makes it easier for the foam to rise. In reality though the larger the interior of the skimmer tends to enhance the amount of reactions going on. But as long as you get the required rates its not a biggie to do it.


Mike

 

[CarlaW]

To be honest here, I think alot of folks are really looking at the amount of power used versus efficiency. Now granted, it looks as tho the cones do kick butt, but they haven't really been around long enough to really tell if they are more efficient. JMHO

 

[Maxx]

Charlie, are you referring to the ability to remove DOC's when you talk about efficiency? Because these skimmers are definately more energy efficient than alot of other skimmers out on the market.

Skimmerwhisperer or Luke:
You guys had mentioned an airflow rate in a previous thread regarding what you feel is neccesary to rate a skimmer to a system...I think it was something like 100lph per 10 gallons of display for SPS or something. I cant find the thread it was posted in...could you guys post that here, and explain how you came up with those numbers?

Mike, did you ever bother to find out what your Beast skimmers were pulling air wise? I know you built them with the intent of a low turnover to maximize processing of DOC's per pass...but it would be interesting to know what it was pulling.

Nick

 

[CarlaW]

Charlie, are you referring to the ability to remove DOC's when you talk about efficiency? Because these skimmers are definately more energy efficient than alot of other skimmers out on the market.

Yeah, that is what I was referring to. You and I both know that true test is over the long run. I am definitely not doubting the energy thing!! I just wish someone could come up with one of these that wasn't an in sump skimmer. If these are as efficient in both ways, which I really think they are, I would give one a go in a heartbeat!!! My Iwaki 100 grabs alot of juice!!!!

 

[mojoreef]

Mike, did you ever bother to find out what your Beast skimmers were pulling air wise? I know you built them with the intent of a low turnover to maximize processing of DOC's per pass...but it would be interesting to know what it was pulling.

Yea about 10800 lph, but that was only when I wanted the foam to go into the neighbors yard :lol:

I think it was something like 100lph per 10 gallons of display for SPS or something

Their are Principles that make a skimmer skim effectively, its math really. Folks tend to believe that it has something to do how much foam it makes and to be honest it doesnt. For me I just look at the skimmer, apply the Principles, do the math and it tells you. You can do it for a beckett or this one, when I look at this one, I have to ask what makes it a good skimmer??


Mike

 

[Maxx]

Yea about 10800 lph, but that was only when I wanted the foam to go into the neighbors yard :lol:

Their are Principles that make a skimmer skim effectively, its math really. Folks tend to believe that it has something to do how much foam it makes and to be honest it doesnt. For me I just look at the skimmer, apply the Principles, do the math and it tells you. You can do it for a beckett or this one, when I look at this one, I have to ask what makes it a good skimmer??


Mike

Mike, what do you look for in a skimmer? What are your "must have" requirements for a skimmer, and why?

Nick

 

[barrierreefcf]

Rumor has it that KZ is on the war path with their Cone Patent. Can't really share the specifics but it'll be interesting to see whose cones stay on the market and who finds ways around the patent. I'm sure someone else has heard things and can share.

Yes Mike, please post a refresher on the principals. It seems as though everyone is consumed with air lph and energy efficiency. I havn't seen dwell time discussed in any of the recent skimmer conversations.

 

[mojoreef]

1: flow rate through the skimmer. The formula for figureing it out is Hours=9.2 purity coefficient (which means that 99.9% of the water has been treated (gallons/gph) so this formula gives you an idea on how to see how many times a day the tank water runs through the skimmer in order to treat all the tank water completely. So an example of say my skimmer would be:I have a pump pushing 600 gph and my tank has about 1000 gallons of water and I want to have a treatment of 9.2 coefficient (which means 99.99% of the water is treated in the tank). Or (1000/600)9.2=15.3 So all my water will hae seen the skimmer every 15.3 hours. This formula works for all equipment.

2. Bombardment rate: Which is the number of times an assending air bubble hits a descending water drop with in the skimmer. This concept deals with the time the tank water spends in the skimmer and the diameter of the skimmer. Ok the formula for figuring this out is Bombardment rate (R) = the dwell time of the water/the dwell time of the air. So an example: my skimmer holds 30 gallons of water and is feed by that 600 gph so that means that the water completely passes through the skimmer every 180 seconds So my dwell time for the water is 180sec. The dwell time is a long formula and it just dont work for me, so I mickey moused it. I turned the air pump super low so thier was only a few bubbles in the skimmer. With the bubbles coming in and hitting the wwater flow in the skimmer I timed it out at a very approximate but it came out to 12 seconds, so my bombardment rate is 180/12= 15 bombardment rate. 10 is concidered to be perfect. So I should sow down the rate a bit.

The way a skimmer pulls off organics is really done in two seperate functions. One is mechanically and the other is chemically. With the bubbles hitting the water goblets it is mechanically pounding off the organics or seperating them from the water molecules. The chemical reaction is where the organic molecule is attracted to the surface of the air bubble. Now that chemical reaction does take time to occur, thus dwell time is very important.

Mike

 

[Reefdaddy1]

This is stuff that was missing all those months. Thanks Mike for the refresher.

 

[mojoreef]

I missed whatever your refering to RD but truely nothing else pertains when looking at skimmers. All you have to do is look at the math and it will tell you if the skimmer works well or not, doesnt matter about price, or method of making bubbles, or style and so on. Just the facts mr. just the facts


Mike

 

[CarlaW]

1: flow rate through the skimmer. The formula for figureing it out is Hours=9.2 purity coefficient (which means that 99.9% of the water has been treated (gallons/gph) so this formula gives you an idea on how to see how many times a day the tank water runs through the skimmer in order to treat all the tank water completely. So an example of say my skimmer would be:I have a pump pushing 600 gph and my tank has about 1000 gallons of water and I want to have a treatment of 9.2 coefficient (which means 99.99% of the water is treated in the tank). Or (1000/600)9.2=15.3 So all my water will hae seen the skimmer every 15.3 hours. This formula works for all equipment.

Ok, I am figuring this out for my equipment. I have a 400 gallon system, the skimmer is fed by a 2000gph pump. Using your formula, all my water sees the skimmer every 1.84 hours, correct?
Now the second part is where Charlie gets lost. I figure my skimmer holds about 7 gallons of water, fed by a 2000gph pump, where am I going from here???? Sorry, but math was never one of my biggies.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

I missed whatever your refering to RD but truely nothing else pertains when looking at skimmers. All you have to do is look at the math and it will tell you if the skimmer works well or not, doesnt matter about price, or method of making bubbles, or style and so on. Just the facts mr. just the facts


Mike

I was refering to your input. When it comes to stuff like this it was sorely missed. The refresher was pretty much the same from your Beast II build. Correct?

 

[mojoreef]

Yep thats about right on the first part Charlie. On the second you go 2000gphour /60 minutes = 33.3gper minute/60 seconds = .55 gpsecond sooo then 7 gallons means that the dwell time in the skimmer is 3.7 seconds

So when one thinks that most moles take anywhere from 30 to 120 seconds your not winning .


Mike

 

[mojoreef]

No more from other disscussion we had over the years, might be in that one though.

Mike

 

[CarlaW]

That 7 gallons might be wrong, it is just a flat guess. I am using the same skimmer that Kevin uses on his 600 in his store, I wonder if he knows how many gallons the Barr 4220 holds?