dang bashing, and other 4 letter words :)

[danno14]

OK gang, I am posting this to the water fountain as I feel it most aptly belongs here. If the mods feel it appropriate to lock the thread or ban me, so be it.... that's a privilege of being a mod, paid for with the responsibility of moderating a free forum.

As for the recent crud regarding “Dang bashing”, and the perspective that the mods are taking to keep the forum on track… I have to respect their efforts regardless of my opinion of Dang, Tracy, Paul, Eric, my dog, left foot, etc. The whole mod thing is a rather thankless job, and one that tends to get others fired up at them. At times I have felt mods on this and other forums get a little heavy handed, but I must say it is less so here than elsewhere. Keeping a boat on an even keel in heated discourse is never easy, let alone with folks having the pseudo-anonymity of a keyboard and screen name.

Well put by Mike, long ago:
“why I don't want to have controversial threads on Reef Frontiers (all reefing debates are wide open) such as politics, religion and similar threads.
There are three main reasons I want to avoid them. One is that in almost all situations the arguments on both sides are based on personal opinion and the people that have those opinions are not going to change them, which usually means its only going to be an argument and I don't want RF to become a place to just come and argue.
The second is that almost all members on RF are friends and have great respect for each other, this shows on almost all threads we have here. I don't want anyone to lose respect or friendship over a topic that clearly has no logical conclusion.
The last one is I fear the fact that anyone at anytime can see this thread join RF and turn it into a dog and pony show. “

We have seen the dog and pony show. As for opinions, everyone believes their opinion to be correct, otherwise they would change that opinion. Finally, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is wrong. (the caveat is that on an “open” forum such as this one, there are people who control what is actually allowed as far as sharing that opinion with others).

The bottom line as I see it is that there are always people po’d at other people for reasons they consider valid. This forum is the most common venue for many of these folks to communicate, and at times there are tongue-in-cheek or blatant comments made regarding the rifts. The mods have made glaringly clear the intolerance for this, regardless of intent, based upon it being an open forum available for perusal by all.

I propose:
*no more red-bug comments made by anyone, at all, ever. If you want to do so, post on a different forum, or start a blog.
*if you are annoyed by someone, me included, use the “Add danno14 to your ignore list” option on the view profile page. I have a few users on my ignore list and found it makes me much happier not looking at their posts.
*if you are a tattler, grow up! If in fact you are really trying to solve a problem, send the other user a pm instead of hiding behind a mods skirt (analogy here….dunno if any of you actually wear skirts ). If it still cannot be resolved in this fashion, then contact a mod that you trust. Shot-gunning all the mods with “Jimmy did a no-no” is as childish as whatever the initial behavior may have been.
*remember this is just a hobby! (With the exception of those who are on the board as sponsors). Treat it as a hobby!

If you want to discuss this further, I welcome you to PM me. If you concur, post accordingly.
Danno out.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Well said Dan.

I personally was quite offended that anyone ever considered Tracy nor Eric anything other than totally generous, friendly, and very considerate adults. Two of the finest examples of everything good about reef keepers and even as good human beings. Each deserves and has earned FULL benefit of the doubt at all times.

If a thread needs to be closed or a post needs to be deleted and the abuser PMed, fine. But I am tired of the childish bickering and equally tired of the patronizing or judgmental lectures. They REALLY bring the tone down and are a complete buzz kill to any open discussion of our hobby: make that passion.

If this opinion is in the minority, than this isn't the site it once was. Yes the RB debate got way out of context in the grand scheme of things, but this is supposed to be a fun place for fellow hobbyists to be able to let their hair down and talk about their tanks and reef experience. If the owner feels we need "Big Brother" to judge and censor cheerful banter, ...

I have said too much already, and as Danno said, feel free to PM me for more complete discussion or let it end.

 

[salmonslayer]

Well put, something to think about. I think were I have a prob is something thats really harmless such as a joke can turn into a mess. Just me but if you make a joke about me, my tank, dog,cat,mom,dad,friend, wife, well not the wife. Its not a attack at you its a joke. Have fun you only live once and I love this hobby and site and do more than post/sell my corals here unlike others ( sorry no attack on anyone just my take ). I will always be me, weather on RF or not. I been vary blessed and greatfull for what I have. I don't hate life.
It seems like someone on RF is looking for trouble. To run from post to post to post looking for someone that is talking about them and running to the mod and $#%@&^ like a %#$&. Just to stir thing up and make it look like its the person posting it thats the prob. Just my 2 cents.
All is good danno great post.

 

[Fragman]

I want to get the rules straight

It seems like I always miss all the fun as these things come up when I'm on the road working. (Rats)

So if I understand what I read, it is against the rules to say "Red Bugs", or "Phad Thai" out side the confines of a "Red Bug" or "Food" thread as it could be construed as a reference to (you know who) and hurt his feelings. How many other words are currently off limits? I need to know so I can be careful and limit my usage of these words. How about "Sammamish"? I had a post pulled where that place was mentioned about a month ago. Perhaps the mods can get together a list of all of the potentially harmful words. Then we can all make sure not to use them out of context.

Paul

 

[Scooterman]

It is a thankless position, we don't get paid & everyone that we mod will look at that individual as the bad guy with no respect that we have way over 20,000 members here & when we get complaints we seriously have to look into them. Lots of complaints we look into & may be nothing done but think of letting 20K members post freely to the point of no line drawn, what would we have here? Defining that line it the difficult part, we discuss this in the mod locker room where you can't see & do our best to do the proper thing, case by case day by day year by year. Sometimes joking around isn't so obvious so the main lesson here is to consider what you post for everyone that isn't part of a click or wouldn't catch on to it. We don't just correct someone, delete post or ban someone without really looking into it, unless it clearly is a rule violation. There is a lot that goes on behind the sense that we do freely to help keep RF what it is. I don't think we go without ever making mistakes but we learn & move on, any one of you put your time & heart into something like this for years in would understand where I'm coming from, to see someone bad talk a mod regardless if you think he/she is right or wrong just hits a nerve. Most of this stuff personally doesn't bother me what people say or do but the big picture it does because it not only affect you but everyone.

 

[NaH2O]

Paul, it was explained to you why your post was removed. You were trying to "get away with" a vague inflammatory remark. Inflammatory remarks regardless of how they are worded are not tolerated here.

Joking around and having cheerful banter is one thing. Being inflammatory is another. As mods and admins, we have a difficult job of keeping this site running smoothly - of course balanced with our personal and professional lives. For instance, I really should be in bed still recovering from my surgery, but alas, here I am checking on things. Another point I want to make, is I think there is a misperception about who is "running behind the mods skirts" (and yes, I've been known to wear a skirt a time or two ). You'd be surprised by who reports posts. You may think you know who is reporting, but you don't. The vast majority of the time they are reported by folks not even involved in the particular situation. Also, there is a tendency to receive more than one report from different people on the same post. I have no problem with people reporting posts. Please do so, as we can't be all places all the time.

There is no problem talking about red bugs. My God, red bugs have been a problem for a very very long time - we've never had issues discussing them in the past. The problems come in when a handful of members decide to start bashing others for them. Vague or not, inflammatory comments will not be tolerated. This is a hobby board, designed to help others and learn more information on reefkeeping.

 

[mojoreef]

Hmmm lots of really good points on this thread for sure. Seems like a great place and time to clear the air.

Danno great thread and thanks for bring this up here.

If a thread needs to be closed or a post needs to be deleted and the abuser PMed, fine. But I am tired of the childish bickering and equally tired of the patronizing or judgmental lectures. They REALLY bring the tone down and are a complete buzz kill to any open discussion of our hobby: make that passion.

Ohh so true

If the owner feels we need "Big Brother" to judge and censor cheerful banter, ...

Hmm even just the thought that their is a "Big Brother" presence shows how far this BS has gone. The fact the mods have to waste so much of their time dealing with this that they might be viewed as a Big Brother is comical at best. Cheerful banter?? to some I guess, to others that are the grunt of the banter maybe not so much, for those that have to deal with it...well.

I think were I have a prob is something thats really harmless such as a joke can turn into a mess

Yep

To run from post to post to post looking for someone that is talking about them and running to the mod and $#%@&^ like a %#$&. Just to stir thing up and make it look like its the person posting it thats the prob. Just my 2 cents

So it is crystal clear. I recieve every report post and I can tell you that who you think it is has not once sent a report. NOT ONCE. I have recieved one PM where the individual asked simply to be removed and they no longer wanted to be subjected to what they (and myself) viewed as them being the grunt of someones humor. His request was denied.

So if I understand what I read, it is against the rules to say "Red Bugs", or "Phad Thai" out side the confines of a "Red Bug" or "Food" thread as it could be construed as a reference to (you know who) and hurt his feelings.

Brillant

There is no problem talking about red bugs. My God, red bugs have been a problem for a very very long time - we've never had issues discussing them in the past.

Absolutely, please feel free, purhaps it will helps folks learn on how to quarrantine stuff prior to putting it into their tanks.

Heres the bottom line folks so all are informed and hopefully are happy with the outcome of this very old situation. I would normally put this in the mod forum when it comes to dealing with situations, but I want to all to know where I stand on this.

In regards to RB bashing/joking or this situation in general, NO MORE threads are to be Modified, posts are not to be deleted (about this situation). I would ask the mods that if a post is reported or seen that is on this subject (not RB's but bashing/insults and so on, no matter how covered up) from either side of the story that they shoot me call and I will ban the user from RF immediatey.

I think this will great rid of the thought of Big Brother, help those that are just tired of seeing it all over the place, help those that just want to have fun, and help those that are having to deal with it all the time. I am sorry if this seems heavy handed but I am a shallow man and dont know any other way of dealing with it.


Mike

 

[Krish]

This is all so un-fortunate that RF has come to this... RF was THE site IMO, like non-other, where everyone cared more about sharing info about the hobby and getting along than having any sort of confusion/chaos. I got quite a few pm's within the past few months from others asking me what is going on with RF and what can we do to make it like it was and then I've even gotten pm's from others saying they can't take it anymore and were moving on. Such a sad thing... I'm here day in and day out, enjoying sharing the hobby (which my post count can account for) even being tankless for over a year now, but un-fortunately things to me, don't seem all the same anymore. I've noticed I'll sit to the computer sometimes and won't even log on to RF or I will log on to check pm's and then log off which is un-like me. :doubt: I'm still very enthusiastic about the hobby and love it here, but things definately aren't like they use to be. Hopefully we can get back to where we were.

 

[mojoreef]

Krish its just one situation that has gone a little to far and needs to stop. Hopefully this is the last thread that deals with it.


take care


Mike

 

[Krish]

Krish its just one situation that has gone a little to far and needs to stop. Hopefully this is the last thread that deals with it.


take care


Mike

Sounds good

 

[Maxx]

Just to throw my 2 cents in...

Educational discussion is the purpose of this forum. Disagreements from these discussions happen. In many ways, they are beneficial to the discussion as they usually involve both sides thinking "out loud" so that others can follow along and benefit. Mike (Mojo), is famous for that sort of thing, and has been at the epicenter of some really really good threads/discussions here and elsewhere because of exactly that. The problem comes in when people take things personal or get personal in various discussions.

I dont get paid for helping out here, I dont get a private parking spot of my very own, I dont get discounts from any stores for hobby related items because of my affiliation here. I do this because I enjoy the hobby, the vast majority of the people I've met here, and I get to learn an obsecene amount about this hobby by being here on the board.

I'm a full time police officer. I work a minimum of 40 hours a week, but I'd honestly be hard pressed to tell the last time that was all I worked in a week. Long story short, I get more than enough drama with work. I dont come here looking for it, or wanting to find it.

We get email alerts from members here about various posts. I got one today regarding some knucklehead trying to sell a Target gift card. Herefishyfishy sends them out semi regularly when we get spammers selling phones or PS3's XBoxes or whatever. The point being that we dont have to go searching for this sort of thing. We get alerted to it. I actually minimize my involvement regarding posts as much as possible. If I cant add something to a thread, or a situation has already been handled or addressed, I stay out of it.

Playful banter is one thing....anyone who knows me or has read more than a few of my posts knows I have absolutely no problem joking and playng with others, even when I'm the butt of the joke. But it needs to be understood that its a joke. Sometimes that doesnt happen and people get bent...these usually get cleared up pretty quickly.
Other times people act like they're joking when they're really not.... these dont get cleared up as quickly.

A good part of communication between humans is non verbal. Think about it. I can tell you that I hate you and I hope that it burns when you pee, and make you laugh when I say it, or I can cause a huge disturbance between you and I...it depends on how I say it and the non verbal cues that come with it. On boards like this, we're restricted to written word only. So that kinda distorts how things come across...making it easier for misunderstandings to happen. For example:

So if I understand what I read, it is against the rules to say "Red Bugs", or "Phad Thai" out side the confines of a "Red Bug" or "Food" thread as it could be construed as a reference to (you know who) and hurt his feelings. How many other words are currently off limits? I need to know so I can be careful and limit my usage of these words. How about "Sammamish"? I had a post pulled where that place was mentioned about a month ago. Perhaps the mods can get together a list of all of the potentially harmful words. Then we can all make sure not to use them out of context.

This comes across as an inflammatory baiting kind of post. "What can I get away with while being condescending to the Mods/Admin" is how it comes across.

No doubt, thats not at all what was intended.

So its easy to see how things get misunderstood......

Long story short people....

This is a hobby. We are all geeks/nerds interested in this hobby to some degree. Lets all go back to being polite well mannered nerds/geeks, and get back to such thought provoking and nail biting discussions of why DSB's rock and how to McGuyver the-bestest-skimmer-ever using toilet paper rolls and a child's Kazoo. Less drama that way, and we can all go back to having fun.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[MikeS]

It seems like I always miss all the fun as these things come up when I'm on the road working. (Rats)

So if I understand what I read, it is against the rules to say "Red Bugs", or "Phad Thai" out side the confines of a "Red Bug" or "Food" thread as it could be construed as a reference to (you know who) and hurt his feelings. How many other words are currently off limits? I need to know so I can be careful and limit my usage of these words. How about "Sammamish"? I had a post pulled where that place was mentioned about a month ago. Perhaps the mods can get together a list of all of the potentially harmful words. Then we can all make sure not to use them out of context.

Paul

Ok, I think that question is just a wise-a$$ one IMO...I think you all have a pretty darn good idea of what's going to be taken out of context and what isn't...is it really that hard to figure out? C'mon, give us a break now....

MikeS

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Looks like we found a forum for Mods to vent too:lol::lol::lol:
Everyone needs to blow off a little steam once in awhile, Danno had a great idea. At least it is in the Water Fountain where this flavor of discussion belongs. Lets all try to keep the boards friendly and get this place back to the mellow site for real info and open acceptance of ones right to opinion again.

Hey, I have an inch of snow on my back porch in the Puget Sound foothills.
My tank is doing much better after some near disasters and now have a softy tank which used to be my 72 gallon bow front QT. A place to put my shrimp and clams and pods while treating my display for Invert unsafe coral infestation treatment (2nd attempt intercepter). Will post a picture later. It is an ill storm that brings nobody any good.

 

[Maxx]

while treating my display for Invert unsafe coral infestation treatment (2nd attempt intercepter).

:lol:

Nick

 

[mojoreef]

I think that question is just a wise-a$$ one IMO

No no Paul would never be a wise ass, he lives way to close to me now

Anyway all that was said prior to my post is history and no longer pertains, so lets just carry on from here and get back on tract.

A place to put my shrimp and clams and pods while treating my display

You know we all need to quarrantine corals and fish these days, its kinda like sex now, their are just way to many nasty things out their now days..and these things can kill. I am not really one to talk, as my disapline for doing this in the past was as bad as most, but now days its just darn crasy. I have recieved in the past corals, fish and so on from the best hobbiest, collectors in the county, who swore they had no pests, just to find them. If you have an established tank you really need to assume that everything is diseased or infected...its just a much safer approach.


Mike

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Mike have to agree 100% on all counts. My infestation came from corals that I had bought from one of the most experienced, best educated, and keeper of one of the finest coral reefs I have ever seen. Guess it can take good water to keep some of these little tiny crustaceans alive.

Now all we need is a tested reliable procedure for RB dipping. Some anecdotal evidence seems to hint that 24 hour triple strength intercepter dip might not be strong or long enough:doubt:

 

[Jan]

Now all we need is a tested reliable procedure for RB dipping. Some anecdotal evidence seems to hint that 24 hour triple strength intercepter dip might not be strong or long enough

Are you kidding? If not, that is totally depressing.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Salmonslayer is currently working on some tests.
I might try some too.

 

[mojoreef]

Ahhh the Tegastes acroporanus, you know their has to be a pred or they would have wiped out the Pacific reefs along time ago. Perhaps training a fish might be worth a try?? No not joking


Mike

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Yep, there absolutely is some common ugly little wrasse, or gorilla crab, or sea lice or who knows what, that FEASTS on the little buggers.