Dowflake not safe?

[Kinerson]

I was getting ready to reorder some Dowflake for my "improved to part recipe" and came accross some threads that said the 2007 batch of Dowflake contains some ingredients (borate?) that is not considered safe.

What is currently a safe choice for the calcium part and where is a good place to get it?

Thanks guys,
Greg

 

[DonW]

Two part solution and its ok to use.

Don

 

[Kinerson]

Dosen't the two part solution use Dowflake as there Ca part? Do they have a stock pile of the 2006 lot???

Greg

 

[DonW]

I think Bommer said it was going to be awhile before we ever saw that stuff. Send him a pm, also ask if the food grade has been effected.

Don

 

[Kinerson]

I just got an e-mail back from 2 part solutions. They said they have enough of the old Dowflake to last alot longer, perhaps a couple years. They also said they have another manufacturer lined up that has "better" calcium hydroxide when the time comes.

 

[Scooterman]

I just got an e-mail back from 2 part solutions. They said they have enough of the old Dowflake to last alot longer, perhaps a couple years. They also said they have another manufacturer lined up that has "better" calcium hydroxide when the time comes.

THat is good news~:razz:

 

[Boomer]

Don

Send him a pm, also ask if the food grade has been effected.

Yes it is on that pdf's Here I will make it easier for you

http://www.dow.com/calcium/news/August_2005.pdf

http://www.dow.com/calcium/news/August_2005_add.pdf


I would not bet on that 2 years crap. DOW made this announcement 2 years ago but there was a delay and it was amended to take effect at the end of 2007. Two-part may have a good supply but what about others ? Be safe and buy Tetra which is a much better product than DOW ever was, as it is made from limestone and does not have the aftermath of the Solvay Process like bromide and ammonia.

 

[DonW]

Who is retailing the Tetra?

 

[Boomer]

Don't know off hand Don but there are some post on RC IIRC. Tetra is pretty new to the hobby. I'll see if I can find you one

 

[Boomer]

Nope can't find anyone Don. You wold have to call them to see whare to get it. I might add that there is a "Briners" grade called Express that looks like seasalt that is a anhydrous calcium chloride (CaCl2) are white, high-purity mini-pellets with 94 to 97 percent CaCl2 by weight.

http://www.tetrachemicals.com/Contact/Index.aqf

 

[dngspot]

I have been using Prestone Driveway Heat. Here is a copy of the MSDS.
http://www2.itap.purdue.edu/MSDS/docs/2558.pdf

 

[DonW]

I have been using Prestone Driveway Heat. Here is a copy of the MSDS.
http://www2.itap.purdue.edu/MSDS/docs/2558.pdf

MSDS are pretty much worthless when it comes to determining wether or not its safe. You need the impurity profile.


Don

 

[DonW]

Nope can't find anyone Don. You wold have to call them to see whare to get it. I might add that there is a "Briners" grade called Express that looks like seasalt that is a anhydrous calcium chloride (CaCl2) are white, high-purity mini-pellets with 94 to 97 percent CaCl2 by weight.

http://www.tetrachemicals.com/Contact/Index.aqf

Ive called a few of the sales reps listed on that page. Not one returned my call. I even tried the one listed in the agriculture page with no luck. There is a terminal in Vancouver, I may swing in there next time I fish in that area.

Don

 

[Boomer]

Well, that sucks Don. I called and they sent me right to the chemist. He had a list but I I did not ask, as I was intereseted only in Bromide and their method of CaCl2 manufacturing. I'll rattle their cage for you on Monday :lol:

 

[dngspot]

MSDS are pretty much worthless when it comes to determining wether or not its safe. You need the impurity profile.


Don

I am sorry I cannot deliver a impurity profile. I have my experience of four years using Prestone Driveway Heat with good results. Also Randy Holmes-Farley, who has done the purity test on the Dow product, has said this,

If Dowflake calcium chloride or a repackaged version (such as All-Clear) cannot be located, Peladow or Dow Mini-Pellets, which are dehydrated versions of Dowflake (that is, they have less water in the crystals), can be substituted. In addition to the Peladow brand name, Peladow also is sold as Prestone Driveway Heat and possibly as some other common brands. Kent Turbo Calcium is also suitable and is an anhydrous calcium chloride. Any FCC (food), USP (pharmaceutical) or BP (pharmaceutical) grades of calcium chloride should be suitable.

Peladow, Dow mini-Pellets, Prestone Driveway Heat, Kent Turbo Calcium and other dehydrated calcium chloride products are more potent than Dowflake. The dehydration makes them both more potent by weight, and more dense, so they are much more potent by volume. The problem is that it is rarely clear how much moisture they contain. Peladow specifies 90% calcium chloride minimum, but it may be higher in some cases. Dow Mini-Pellets say 94% minimum, but it actually has a lower bulk density than Peladow. The best guess for an amount to use is based on the hydration levels and bulk density provided by Dow for these products. Using these numbers, I suggest that aquarists use 20% less VOLUME of the dehydrated versions in the recipes than the Dowflake they call for. So a recipe calling for 5 cups of Dowflake would use 4 cups of Peladow, Prestone Driveway Heat, Kent Turbo Calcium, etc.

Choosing other unknown brands of any of the products may be fine, or not. I've not tested them for purity.

Here is the link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Prestone+driveway+heat+repackaged+dow

 

[DonW]

I am sorry I cannot deliver a impurity profile. I have my experience of four years using Prestone Driveway Heat with good results. Also Randy Holmes-Farley, one person who has done the purity test on the Dow product, has said this,

I think your missing the whole point of the discussion. That is old information that is no longer valid. Things have changed with the bromide levels. They are now very high. Boomer just posted two pdf files that explains this.

I would assume that large companies like Prestone sell in such large volumes that they have been using the high Bromide stuff for awhile now. Alternative ca chloride suppliers like Prestone would be very high on the list to stay away from.

Don

 

[Boomer]

and Randy is very concerned about the change in DOW and will no longer recommend it in the future due to the high Bromide.

 

[Kinerson]

Boomer-
Are you still trying to determine the best product within the tetra line to use? There seems to be a few choices and I'm not sure which is better. A lot of people seem to recomend Tetra but no one ever gets specific. I did talk to one guy who is using the Tetra 94 but he has been using it only for a few weeks and didn't seem to know exactly why he picked that exact type. Unfortunatly I never was good in chemistry I'm kinda hoping someone like yourself could reccomend a specific type.
I spoke to Tetra Friday afternoon and found them to be very nice to deal with. Unfortunatly it was late in the day and the person in my geographical area could not call me until Monday. I still don't know what to ask for though.?.
Greg

 

[Boomer]

Well, I spent some time on the phone with their head sale rep and got it al,l as far finding where to get it /say.

As far as the best grade their FCC is the best grade. IMHO any of these are fine, it is just what "form" you want it in.

Briners Grade
EXPRESS
FCC Food Grade
TETRA Flake
Tetra 94

You can get in in large or even single bag from;

UNIVAR
http://www.univarusa.com/

Don

They have suppliers in both Spokane and Tacoma. Go look out your door you may be able to see the building

He could not find the Tacoma distrib but here are some in Washington

http://www.univarusa.com/facilities/iview?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=washington

 

[DonW]

Go look out your door you may be able to see the building

Nope, just an espresso stand. I'll call the guy in Kent.


Thanks
Don