DSB Critters

[NaH2O]

LOL, Mike/mojo...excuse me while I go and pout (mumbling under my breath....cations and anions ).

MikeS - don't bother looking at the links. According to mike, they don't pertain, although I still haven't figured out why the basic properties of microbes would be so vastly different in the marine environment....they have basic functions. Example: Nitrospira can be found in nonmarine habitats, too.

Any organism that has more than one cell porbably has very little to do with the functioning of a DSB. The ecological dynamics of the bacterial community are what we are concerned with. Diffusion in and of itself is the dominant factor when it comes to transport through a sanded at the deeper layers. Any macro-organism is going to provide very little in the way of transport or even movement between stratifications. The DSB is realy good at convering nitrate into nitrogen gas. It doesn't do anything else very well at all, except provide a perfect home for organisms that thrive in sand.

I disagree. I don't think the sand bed can function without bacteria OR critters. I feel both are important, and needed. As mojo has pointed out in an earlier post - the worm is very important....holds its breathe and dives deep allowing transfer of things from the upper layers, down. I also disagree on the point that the sand bed doesn't do anything else well. I think it serves as a sink and/or compost pile quite well.

 

[MikeS]

MikeS - don't bother looking at the links.

I'll still check them out anyway...what I did see of them looked interesting...

I disagree. I don't think the sand bed can function without bacteria OR critters. I feel both are important, and needed.

I don't think anybody is in disagreement about the bacteria...they are obviously the key to the DSB...after all, we set up a DSB to create an environment where nitrate reducing bacteria can live...

As mojo has pointed out in an earlier post - the worm is very important....holds its breathe and dives deep allowing transfer of things from the upper layers, down..

This is where the debate is centered...yes it does tunnel through the sandbed, but is it 100% responsible for DSB success? Or will the DSB continue to function in its absence? This is where we are starting to see things a bit differently from one another...

I also disagree on the point that the sand bed doesn't do anything else well. I think it serves as a sink and/or compost pile quite well.

Interesting you should bring that up.... I've been testing water from different areas and levels of my DSB for phosphate...and getting some interesting results... I'm going to keep doing this for a few more months and then post my observations....but thats a topic for another thread...

MikeS

 

[NaH2O]

I don't think anybody is in disagreement about the bacteria...they are obviously the key to the DSB...after all, we set up a DSB to create an environment where nitrate reducing bacteria can live...

I think you may have misunderstood me (easy to do). What I was saying is the sand bed can't function without either. If one is missing, then there will be issues. I was trying to indicate that the critters are just as important as the bacteria.

heh Mike - I remember talking with you about those tests on your DSB. One thing I will remind myself when results come out - you have a pretty light bioload, if I remember correctly?

 

[mojoreef]

This is where the debate is centered...yes it does tunnel through the sandbed, but is it 100% responsible for DSB success? Or will the DSB continue to function in its absence?

No debate really Mike. Its not 100% responsible but it facilatates the bacteria that do do the work. In the wild you have a few different areas where sand bed like filtration happens. In the mud flats/swamps and simular. In these cases critters are critical and the sediment is very dence. The other is in bays beaches and so on. Now in this case the critters are not as critical. The reason is from natural disturbances in the substraight from waves, tidal action and the occational storm wipe out.
Thier are actually quite a few studies done on this if you want I can try to dig some up.


Mike

 

[MikeS]

. In these cases critters are critical and the sediment is very dence. The other is in bays beaches and so on.

Do you think that a less dense DSB would perhaps function better in the absence of critters? ie one composed of a larger average grain size than the commonly used oolitic aragonite?

Thier are actually quite a few studies done on this if you want I can try to dig some up.


Mike

Sure, if you have the time....always looking to expand my knowledge...or lack thereof... :lol:

Mike

 

[mojoreef]

Do you think that a less dense DSB would perhaps function better in the absence of critters? ie one composed of a larger average grain size than the commonly used oolitic aragonite?

Yep, see now you are getting the gest of the plenum vs dsb thingy. The critters in a dsb make up for the absence of diffusion by water.


Mike

 

[MikeS]

Lets say you didn't have a plenum under it....

MikeS

 

[gobie]

I Can Only Point Out Even Though Sulfides Are Poisonous To Some Critters. There Is Documentation That Others Survive On Them Next To Deep Ocean Vents. I Know This Does Us Aquarist Not Much Good Due To Confining Situations But It Is Amazing How Nature Thinks Of Everything.

 

[mojoreef]

Yes mike even with out the plenum under it. But remember with out the dead spot plenum your going to need to create an anaerobic down thier. I dont tink it would be that hard though.

Gobie that is dead on, thier is a whole ecosystem on those vents, pretty amasing stuff.



Mike