Evolving Corals?

[wrightme43]

I don't think I can live another day with out my own mini reefball. LOL. I've had some time to think on this. Tornado took out pwr and phone line for a little while. I think based on other things we could reintroduce corals to the wild. Think about, the wild turkey, wolf, condor, bald eagle, elk, and all the other animals that are doing great. I think if we are carefull with how it is done it will work. I also believe that as we frag our corals and share them they do adapt to different systems, corals can be moved from M.H. to P.C. to V.H.O. with different salts, with other buffer sys, with other live rock, and D.S.B. or B.B. tanks. They just keep right on growing and new frags are made. They must have a huge amount of adaptability built right in. I think that is very cool. Steve

 

[NaH2O]

I totally agree, Steve. I am thinking about how they adapt themselves to these new environmental changes. What changes do they make to their physiology in order to handle the new location....even a new location in the same system? change in water flow - level of lighting...

 

[wrightme43]

Could we get together and write down out tank parameters and what additives and food we use, then send a small frag to each other. Over time we could all send the frags to one location for testing and comparison. Even then there would be unaswered questions. How do you think we could do this, and do you think it would work? I think using one of the bulletproof corals and cuttings from one large colony would be best. On a side note Have you seen the GARF website? They are looking for small scale coral farmers, even if you use your tank to grow out frags for sale or trade. I read about it day before yesterday. I think I will write them. Worst possible out come would be a we dont need you, and best would be swapped corals I dont already have.

 

[NaH2O]

Here is some information I found regarding Coral Adaptation. I thought it was interesting. It pertains more to the natural reef, but thought it fit into this part of the discussion.

from the link: Coral Reefs And Global Change: Adaptation, Acclimation or Extinction? Initial Report of a Symposium and Workshop

There is empirical evidence, at all scales and from a wide range of sources (geological and biological; field, laboratory and aquarium; theoretical and experimental), that corals as a group of organisms possess a wide range of adaptive and acclimative mechanisms, and that most of these mechanisms appear relatively robust and/or resilient in the face of stress. Coral community structure is dynamic on scales of years to centuries, and this dynamism may provide long-term resilience (or `community adaptation') in response to stresses, including global environmental change. However, the unprecedented variety and magnitudes of chronic anthropogenic alterations of modern reef environments may undermine this resilience.

Here is another very long discussion from a few years ago: Coral Reefs Doomed?. I haven't read through the whole article, but it is a response to a statement put out by a scientist about how the Reefs will be gone by 2050. What the NOAA is saying is they aren't taking coral adaptation into account. The trouble with reading this, for me anyway, it trying to discern who knows what they are talking about (other than the NOAA ).

Such a projection gives no "credit" to adapatation and natural selection,
even though such adaptation would have to occur under a relatively short
time span (50 years). I believe Ware et al (1996), among others, have
addressed this.

I thought this link was pretty cool: Survival: Coral Reef Connections

I'm still trying to find some physiological information on how the corals actually adapt. I just might not be thinking....which is always a possiblity.

 

[Curtswearing]

I think that their adaptation has a lot to do with the way they operate. They are constantly managing their zoox populations on a daily basis for changes in lighting and nutrient levels. They can also manage Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide in a similar manner.

If they are getting too much calcium, they can't use it and they get rid of it. We are likely placing a stress on the corals by maintaining Calcium levels that are too high.

Reefkeeping hobby lore has it that boosting the calcium concentration above natural levels of 410 ppm does little to enhance calcification in most corals. That idea is supported by experiments on Stylophora pistillata where calcification becomes limited by calcium at levels below natural levels, but is not increased above about 360 ppm.4 The relationship between external calcium concentration and calcification rate displays exactly the behavior to be expected if an active transport process were limiting the calcification rate, and that this transport process is saturated with calcium at concentrations above 360 ppm.

The Chemical and Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification

Here's an article that suggests that bleaching is a last ditch effort to obtain a better zoox. I don't know if this Article is true or not but I found it interesting.

As sea temperature rises, the effectiveness of the algae may decrease, so that if the coral can rid themselves of these sub optimal algae they can then become hosts to more suitable species which will increase their chances of survival, says the research conducted by the New York-based Wildlife Conservation Society.

“These findings indicate that bleaching can sometimes help corals respond quickly to environmental change,” said the author’s study, Dr Andrew Baker of the Wildlife Conservation Society’s Osborn Laboratories of Marine Sciences. “The same bleaching that makes corals so fragile may also, during times of extreme environmental stress, help some of them survive.”

A number of corals will engage in polyp bailout if there are toxins or not enough oxygen in the water. The polyp float in the current and hopes to find a better environment to restart the process of building a new reef. Like any animal, there is a natural drive to reproduce. If it doesn't think it will survive, it will send "babies" into the water column to hopefully continue living. Polyp Bailout More Polyp Bailout

 

[NaH2O]

Funny that you linked that article....I read the same thing, and wasn't sure what to make of it. I would like to read the whole study that was conducted.

Does the shape of coral growth change at all with different environments? I would think it would stay with the way the coral is genetically set, but maybe it is subtle changes. Polyps, maybe??

 

[Curtswearing]

They can also manage Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide in a similar manner.

I want to point out that this isn't really true. Most of this is accomplished through diffusion.

I guess the main gist of my prior post is that corals are quite complex. In fact corals and other cnidaria are believed to be some of the earliest organisms to have evolved some type of nervous system.

I think that over a long period of time corals could change shape but I doubt a frag would very much. It would take a long time and the point was made earlier that only the offspring that were from sexual reproduction and not asexual reproduction. Here's a link that shows interbreeding of corals and supports this viewpoint (requires adobe).

I think there is one change that the frag would have to make quickly. It would need to stop putting it's polyps out during the day. OUCH!!!

 

[mojoreef]

They will adapt for sure, not just biologically. Reefs are begining to show up farther and farther north in tropical water, basically chasing the coooler waters.
On the heat and zoox. The vast majority of scientific study leads to a heat stress enzyme being released at certain heat levels. the release of this enzyme causes the expultion of zoox from the coral.
Corals are always looking to get rid of calcium, so that is a continious thing. I think the most noticable adaptations in our tanks would be the pigment enzymes, growth formation (thick/thin/shape) zoox populations, feeding regime, polyp location and density.


Mike

 

[ScottT1980]

Sorry I ahve missed a bit. For some reason, I didn't get any email notifications for a while...

Good reading, I will try to soak it up and add some thoughts if I can. It appears that you guys have your stuff pretty well managed.

My only questions is in regards to the concept of "adaptation." In other words, I am a bit guarded as to the use of the word. In other words, I live in NC and sweat a whole lot in summer thanks to the high humidity and heat. Some may say it is a means of adapting to the external environment. Sure, my body "adapts" but it is not through natural selection per se. Instead, it is the innate ability of my body to cope to surroundings.

I guess my point is, if corals can manage their symbiant levels (the zooxanthelle), is this something that they are innately able to do, is this something that they have been "selected" to do, or is it a combination of the former and the later. The same can be said for Ca and other mineral levels...

Does that make any sense or is it even pertinent? I am VERY tired so perhaps I am missing something...

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[Curtswearing]

Global warming does not spell imminent doom for the world’s coral reefs. Corals may be able to survive the higher temperatures by forming new symbiotic relationships with algae that can take the heat, suggests new research.

Now two independent studies may explain why. Andrew Baker of Columbia University, in New York City, US, and colleagues compared corals across the Pacific before, during, and after the 1997-1998 El Niño. Along the Panama coast, warm water caused extensive bleaching in corals that had formed a symbiotic relationship with one type of Symbiodinium algae, known as clade C. But corals that joined forces with another algae type, clade D, that can tolerate higher temperatures, did not become bleached.

The studies “are important because they show that corals and their algal symbionts can adapt to climate change”, says Terry Hughes, scientific director of the Centre for Coral Reef Biodiversity at James Cook University in Queensland, Australia. But he adds that the composition of reefs around the world will change dramatically in coming decades as heat-tolerant species replace more vulnerable ones.

Coral Adaptation to Heat

 

[reiple]

Three factors about an artificial aquaria that highly differs from the natural.

1. Depth pressure. Unlike an aquarium, corals live below 50 feet +++. A mere 10 feet already exerts a variant pressure. Will this matter? (tanks are like 2-3 feet at the most?)
2. symbiotic organisms. reefs have more than a small aquaria can offer.
3. mangroove and deep sea relationship. Studies from several coral rich areas show a relationship with nearby mangrooves and close deep sea inhabitants.

will corals adapt? evolve? perhaps the process is subtle and slow in the wild. but proof in the artificial aquaria is glaring. corals which normally exhibit more muted colors in the wild yet are vibrant and colorful in the aquaria. I believe this is a form of adaptation to excessive artificial light they are exposed to. So yes they do adapt.

 

[DonW]

I,m wondering what the long term effect are of all the chemicals we use generations later. What about the use of HGH in Italy to grow monster captive spawning sps. Are they drug addicts that will need the HGH to live (crack babies).

Don

 

[wrightme43]

Hey Don, What is HGH? If I won't go to jail for it I might want some. You can PM so I we don't highjack the thread, then again others may want to know what the heck it is as well. Steve

 

[sherm71tank]

Spot of mankind in the timeline of the Earth . Spot of mankinds impact on the Earth we will probably never know. I honestly believe that we give ourselves far to much credit in/for the shaping of our universe/planet through religion and or politics.

 

[DonW]

Hey Don, What is HGH? If I won't go to jail for it I might want some. You can PM so I we don't highjack the thread, then again others may want to know what the heck it is as well. Steve

HGH is Human Growth Hormones. Yes you will go to jail if caught using, buying or attempting to purchase, just like crack.
You must be a MD to get this stuff legally in the US. I think they give it to kids who are having problems and it is injected.
The only legal way to get it from the pharmacy to your tank is to pay a Vet to dose your tank with cattle grade HGH.

Dont get me wrong, I do NOT agree with doing this. I dont think there is any real research on actual dosing and effects other than growth rates. If you want to experiment with human stuff, try different amino acids once you get the right one and right dosage you should be able to boost growth rate.

Don