In Wall - going for it! - seeking your ideas/feedback/advice

[dragoneggs]

Ben,

I finally got caught up on your thread and progress on design. I have been out of town for a week. Looks good so far. My biggest concern is front tank access. I think this is a must! I can't imagine not having access to all sides.

Depth... 30in should be your max and make sure you can get your lights out of the way so you can get down to your shoulders. 28in might be a good compromise but I think I recall from Jason that anything taller than 24in means thicker acrylic so I went to 30in.

Viewing depth (front to back) I find it quite easy to see from side to side and front to back in my tank so I don't think a cube is a bad idea if you want one. I wouldn't want it to stop me from parking my car in the garage though!

I am pretty happy with my CL intakes and returns on the bottom. I have got them fairly well hidden in the LR but I could do better. I like not seeing any plumbing up high in the tank. My eye viewing level is slightly upward when sitting in the living room watching the tank.

 

[class clown]

Hey Mark - thanks for chiming in and welcome back hope you had a good trip.

for point #1 you made- i've decided I will try to go for front access. I was thinking initially I'd try to go without, but I do think it's a good idea as long as i can get it to look nice. I'm thinking of mimicking something similar to Servo's access w/ the piano hinge and the mantel look.

for point #2 (lighting rack), I tried to draw a scetch up of what it could look like...

then was thinking maybe I should just try to upgrade the PCs to T5's right away b/c hello lights seems to be running a special on a 2 x 48" 54w T5 HO retro kit for $99 - can't beat that. Either way, the ligthing rack would be the same.

 

[class clown]

Mark - I'm interested to learn more about the through-the-bottom closed loop design. It'd certainly make it cleaner looking if it was hidden in the rocks, but all of my corals are going to be on the rocks. wouldn't it be too much? very interested to learn more about this option....

 

[Cwazy Clown]

wait..so Ben, why are you having 10k t5's? why not go all actinics and just have 10-12k halide? or are you trying to make like an even spread of color?

 

[dragoneggs]

Mark - I'm interested to learn more about the through-the-bottom closed loop design. It'd certainly make it cleaner looking if it was hidden in the rocks, but all of my corals are going to be on the rocks. wouldn't it be too much? very interested to learn more about this option....

I have a total of 8 returns in the bottom... two in each corner that I can aim in any direction. Dang keep telling me that I should aim them at the 'glass' so the flow bounces back toward the reef. Right now I have them pointing at each other and parallel to the reef walls. It seems to be working so far. I used 90degree elbows and angled them upward as far as they would go (est. 30deg from horizontal). I get an occasional funnel of sand rising from the bottom near the nozzle but it isn't a problem. I like the fact that almost all the food that settles to the bottom is eventually lifted up and back into the water column. My tank is still too new to say what the long term advantage will be but between the hermits, snails, and my two newly added sand sifting stars, I hope my shallow sand bed stays relatively stirred and clean.

 

[NC2WA]

Ben,

I am going CL and believe my tank is going to be plumbed the same way as Mark's tank (returns at the bottom). You are welcome to stop by and see the tank before I add sand and LR.

Kirk

 

[Skimmy]

i've got only one gripe with closed loop plumbing on the bottom of the tank...

eventually, every bulkhead you ever use will have to be replaced,or of it fails or leaks, you will have to drain out the ENTIRE tank to fix...
which is why i like to put my closed loop plumbing about half way up the back of the tank, that way i only have to empty half the tank, so i can leave fish/rock and some corals in the tank while doing repair work if nesessary

 

[Scooterman]

That is why I got he Heavy duty schedule 80 bulkheads, worth the extra cost IMO, hope they last a long time

 

[class clown]

I have a total of 8 returns in the bottom... two in each corner that I can aim in any direction. Dang keep telling me that I should aim them at the 'glass' so the flow bounces back toward the reef. Right now I have them pointing at each other and parallel to the reef walls. It seems to be working so far. I used 90degree elbows and angled them upward as far as they would go (est. 30deg from horizontal). I get an occasional funnel of sand rising from the bottom near the nozzle but it isn't a problem. I like the fact that almost all the food that settles to the bottom is eventually lifted up and back into the water column. My tank is still too new to say what the long term advantage will be but between the hermits, snails, and my two newly added sand sifting stars, I hope my shallow sand bed stays relatively stirred and clean.

oh yeah, just checked it out.. It's so clean looking. I left you a couple questions on your forum btw that I was hoping you could answer. Anyhow, I wonder how I'd do plumbing if I'm considering 2 islands? idears?

 

[class clown]

Mark - excellent point. didnt think about this at all. Schedule 80 is the stuff ehh?- thanks for the tip Scooty.

Kirk - would love to check it out man. when does your tank arrive? maybe i should wait until then.

Cwazy- I don't have a clear answer for ya tonight b/c I'm tired. I was worried about space constrictions which is why I didn't go w/ 4 mhs (9 inch thick wall + 4 inch overflow in back gives me ~35 inches of working room) and this was the other alternative i thought of to allow me some good lighting coverage. Open to other suggestions too.

 

[NC2WA]

Ben,

My stand is finished. Just need two good days to prime and paint it. Jason is trying to build the sump and deliver it with the stand. I will keep you posted; it might be this weekend.

The tank is the last item to be built so I'm guessing at least 2 more weeks before the tank is ready. If you can wait another week or two, it might be beneficial to you. (but this is your call). You are more than welcome to stop over any time to check it out, get ideas, etc...

Kirk

 

[dragoneggs]

Yep I agree with Scooter... I went with Sched 80 bulkheads for all returns and intakes for my 4 CL's (12 total bulkheads. Then a four more inside my overflow tower also through the bottom for the two drains, main return, and electrical conduit. If you add that up I have 16 holes in the bottom of my tank!!! The sched 80 is 3 times the cost but I wanted to be sure a 20lb boulder dropped on top of one wouldn't crack it.

 

[class clown]

Schedule 80 it is. I've been thinking about a revised flow diagram and I think i've got it drafted out.

I'm challenged by the flow in the front b/c I want it to look clean and don't want to have a bulkhead w/ lockline sticking up right in front. I'm thinking I'll still do an over the top setup there.

I'm also challenged by how to do the drain pipes for the return and CL, but maybe Jason will have an idea how to do it.

Here she be.. critique away.

Is this too many outlets (24) for the Reeflo hammerhead (5800 GPH)?

 

[Scooterman]

Are you showing this looking down at the bottom of the tank?
The outlets look ok but the CL returns don't need be so far apart, plumbing would be a nightmare. I think I sorta understand your drawing but really confusing unless your the one drawing it
This will be & OM 4 or 8?
Might be easier to show it with the stuff on the bottom on one drawing & the rest on a different perspective drawing.

 

[class clown]

Are you showing this looking down at the bottom of the tank?
The outlets look ok but the CL returns don't need be so far apart, plumbing would be a nightmare. I think I sorta understand your drawing but really confusing unless your the one drawing it
This will be & OM 4 or 8?
Might be easier to show it with the stuff on the bottom on one drawing & the rest on a different perspective drawing.

yeah.. it's my lame attempt at a top down as if you were hovering over the tank looking downwards.

 

[class clown]

Side view of a tank stand possible design.

concrete cinder blocks on the sides
Steel reinforcements bridging the two cinder block pillars w/ a piece of plywood on top.
Movable bench so i can get some stepping leverage

earthquake safe? I don't know. may need to add another wall in the back to connect the two sides

easy access for plumbing underneath? - not so much.. each block is 8" thick, so all under the bottom plumbing would have to be 8" in (possible, but not exactly what I was hoping for).

economical? maybe - don't know where i'd find the steel beams.

I could use suggestions on this.

I'm also not sure how I'd connect the 2 sumps

 

[rocket]

I don't think you need to go with steel, I'm sure you could get wood to work, glulam joists and posts would most likely work. That way you can get away from CMU walls as well. How big is this tank going to be? How many pounds of live rock?

 

[barrierreefcf]

Ben,

I'm counting 12 closed loop return bulkheads in the bottom of the tank. That seems like a lot of diffeerent return points for a tank the size you are planning. Can it be done with less? I'm assuming each one of those return lines will have a valve to control flow. What happens if the seal wears on one of those valves and it starts to leak. Then you are back to Marks point...the whole tank has too be drained to fix it. In my experiences unions and valves eventually need repair or replacement. We have inherited maintenance accounts over the years with closed loops returned through the bottom and have had issues with plumbing repair on most of them. With 12 return lines your chances of valve, union, or bulkhead leaks increases. Also, I wouldn't go over 24" high if you return through the bottom. Can you imagine trying to reach the bottom of a 30"+ tank to scrape bryopsis off of loc line knuckles?!?!? I've had too do it...it sucks! I would think you could reduce your chance of problems by 50% by simply using one return bulkhead in each of the 4 corners and then 2 more in your canyon. All of these could be "y'd". Any other return outlets could be plumbed in as Mark suggested higher up on the back wall. Just some ideas and in no way meant to suggest your plan isn't feasable.

 

[trido]

I have my barracuda split into 16 3/4" nozzels and two spray bars, as you've seen. 8 constant and 8 steady. I have two concerns. 1, will the OM 4 way handle that kind of GPH? 2, wouldnt it be real nice to have that much flow slipt into two pumps so you could do maintnance on one and still have good flow in the tank? Also, during power outages you could save a little juice in the generator if it doesnt have to work so hard. And the budget goes up, and up and up!

Another thing you may want to consider, over the top nozzels just in case your CL theme (idea) isnt working out. Then you have the option of changing locations of nozzels, adding more, removing them etc... All without really getting your hands wet. All of the plumbing will be in your garage so it doesnt have to be sleek. It will also be much easier to plumb on the sides of the tank rather than under it. You will also save about ($15x10) 150 dollars on bulkheads. That will buy alot of locline ball valves.
If the look of loclines at the surface doesnt appeal to you I know of a little trick some of the national aquariums do to hide theirs. We can use my wifes paper cutter.:badgrin:

 

[dragoneggs]

Good point about multiple pumps... gives you more options, control, maintenance, etc.