In Wall - going for it! - seeking your ideas/feedback/advice

[DonW]

I think your putting the cart before the horse. The wall needs to be cut and the upper and lower headers need to go in place so the stand can be built to exactly match the lower header. You wont need the legs at the wall and Id go 4x4 or laminated plywood for the back legs.

Don

 

[trido]

I think your putting the cart before the horse. The wall needs to be cut and the upper and lower headers need to go in place so the stand can be built to exactly match the lower header. You wont need the legs at the wall and Id go 4x4 or laminated plywood for the back legs.

Don

FWIW, as someone who has been remodeling houses for quite sometime I wouldnt have built it this way either. By building the stand first, Ben has saved several hours of work for when I come over to help out. Now, All I have to do is cut a hole, intall a 6x8 header, a 2x6 sill , level the stand to match the sill, and then install the T&G onto the sill and stand. The T&G will attach the stand to the wall. All four of the legs are 4x4s. The stand has been build 9" shorter in this direction to make up for the wall that it will sit against. IMO, it will be necessary to either have the 4x4 legs on the front or lag bolt the rim joist to the wall. Id trust a vertical piece of wood over a lag bolt any day.

 

[DonW]

FWIW, as someone who has been remodeling houses for quite sometime I wouldnt have built it this way either. By building the stand first, Ben has saved several hours of work for when I come over to help out. Now, All I have to do is cut a hole, intall a 6x8 header, a 2x6 sill , level the stand to match the sill, and then install the T&G onto the sill and stand. The T&G will attach the stand to the wall. All four of the legs are 4x4s. The stand has been build 9" shorter in this direction to make up for the wall that it will sit against. IMO, it will be necessary to either have the 4x4 legs on the front or lag bolt the rim joist to the wall. Id trust a vertical piece of wood over a lag bolt any day.

Is the tank going in the wall or behind it. In the wall would requires no legs behind it needs support.

Don

 

[trido]

Is the tank going in the wall or behind it. In the wall would requires no legs behind it needs support.

Don

The tank is going in-wall. Because the stand was built 9" short it wouldnt be supported by anything but the 2x6 T&G at the wall. Imagine a free standing deck with 9" of the decking cantalevered over one end. If you rested the decking in ,say, a slider door opening, and removed the 4x4s at the wall, put 20 poeple on it, the decking would eventually start to bow and the framing would start to pull away from underneath the decking at the wall creating a sag in the overall deck. To insure that the deck were strong you would need to either lag bolt the rim joist to the wall or leave the 4x4 posts.
If it were a glass tank I would also say they were unecessary but it is acrylic and I would worry about the center possibly sagging in the years to come if we count soley on the 2x6T&G at the wall transition. I think you can agree, we all tend to overbuild our DIY stands. Most people tend to forget that a LFS stand, regardless of size, is typically 6 pieces of plywood with a couple of doors.

 

[class clown]

I see what your saying Don. But as Duane points out, timing was a big reason we did it this way. Also, if i had to choose one, I think we'd all rather it be overbuilt than underbuilt. The extra cost for the 4 x 4 that made up the two legs in questoin were only $12, so no biggie, ya know.

total cost to build the stand for anyone who's curious was only $108.36 - not bad ehh? I still have to get a little bit more of the 2 X 6 tounge & grove car decking to finish off the platform, but those are only like $9.00 each.

I'm going to anchor it to the sheer wall w/ a few galvanized L brackets attached to the legs. Also, there is a bit of overhang (9" to be exact) on the top car decking platform which will protrude into the wall once the whole is cut, and I'll nail or screw that down to the studs to act as another anchor point. (note: let me know if you need a lamo drawring to describe this more)

Question: Should I paint or stain this thing? I probably should, right. The saltwater would penetrate the wood over time. if so, with what? Should I use some deck sealant? marine paint? other recomendations?

 

[class clown]

Ben,

Excellent find on the drums..I was looking for something just like this..
Two questions:
1. Can you give me the exact address of this place so I can input it into my GPS. I am going tomorrow if they are open.
2. What is the signficant of these drums being food grade??

kirk

you bet Kirk .... I beleive this is it (its on 196th right before you get to hwy 99):

Ed's Surplus & Marine
5911 196th St SW
Lynnwood, WA 98036-6052
(425) 778-1441


2) the significance of food grade plastic: As I understand it, non food grade plastics can leach chemicals over time. Food grade arent supposed to leach these chemicals. Side note: Those Brute rubbermade trashcan's are supposed to be food grade.

One word of caution: These are used drums from Pepsi. Although they are most of the way empty, they do have some Pepsi product remanents left in 'em. Mine smells like Dr. Pepper i think. You'll want to do a good cleaning before using. I'm going to use vinegar and water and let it soak in mine for a couple days or so before using.

 

[NC2WA]

Ben,

I highly recommend polyurtheraning the stain or use a marine based paint. I used Interflux Marine Based paint.

Also, is this the name of the surplus store that has the drums???

Ed's Surplus
5911 196th St. SW
Lynnwood, WA 98036

Kirk

 

[trido]

Question: Should I paint or stain this thing? I probably should, right. The saltwater would penetrate the wood over time. if so, with what? Should I use some deck sealant? marine paint? other recomendations?

I would recommend trying to be less of a slob when doing WCs. LMOA

Since it is frame wood and not finish grade I would say painting is the way to go. Some Zinnser primer with a good semigloss latex should last for many years to come. If your not pouring water all over it. Semigloss has a more protective shell than the flatter paints.

IMO marine grade paints and varnishes are meant to last years of sun, rain, water, foot traffic, algea, etc. Your stand is only going to take the occasional spill. Also. Painting it is easier and will match your house better.

 

[class clown]

Ben,

I highly recommend polyurtheraning the stain or use a marine based paint. I used Interflux Marine Based paint.

Also, is this the name of the surplus store that has the drums???

Ed's Surplus
5911 196th St. SW
Lynnwood, WA 98036

Kirk

thats it Kirk

 

[DonW]

The tank is going in-wall. Because the stand was built 9" short it wouldnt be supported by anything but the 2x6 T&G at the wall. Imagine a free standing deck with 9" of the decking cantalevered over one end. If you rested the decking in ,say, a slider door opening, and removed the 4x4s at the wall, put 20 poeple on it, the decking would eventually start to bow and the framing would start to pull away from underneath the decking at the wall creating a sag in the overall deck. To insure that the deck were strong you would need to either lag bolt the rim joist to the wall or leave the 4x4 posts.
If it were a glass tank I would also say they were unecessary but it is acrylic and I would worry about the center possibly sagging in the years to come if we count soley on the 2x6T&G at the wall transition. I think you can agree, we all tend to overbuild our DIY stands. Most people tend to forget that a LFS stand, regardless of size, is typically 6 pieces of plywood with a couple of doors.

If you just cut the opening taller 1.5 the decking would sit on the sill and use the wall as the front legs. Thus all the weight would be supported and no front legs would be needed what so ever. There would be no possible way for it to pull away. Just my opinion and it would be much stronger.

Don

 

[trido]

If you just cut the opening taller 1.5 the decking would sit on the sill and use the wall as the front legs.

That is the plan.

Thus all the weight would be supported

The weight under the rear rim joist and the sill plate would be supported but the weight under the center would not.

and no front legs would be needed what so ever.

My point is that the tank is acrylic and the front rim joist does need to be supported because it is possible for the framing to sag and slowly seperate from the decking in the field

There would be no possible way for it to pull away.

I agree that it will definately not pull awaybuilt like this.

Just my opinion and it would be much stronger

I think what we have here is two different builders basically agreeing on the same thing in two different way.
Im not sure of your woodworking background but I am a third generation residential builder with nearly 20 years personal experience. The last six as a General Contractor, building additions, remodels and decks. I can guarantee you, if this were a permitted deck. We would be required to support it at the wall somehow.

 

[DonW]

That is the plan.

The weight under the rear rim joist and the sill plate would be supported but the weight under the center would not.

My point is that the tank is acrylic and the front rim joist does need to be supported because it is possible for the framing to sag and slowly seperate from the decking in the field
I agree that it will definately not pull awaybuilt like this.

I think what we have here is two different builders basically agreeing on the same thing in two different way.
Im not sure of your woodworking background but I am a third generation residential builder with nearly 20 years personal experience. The last six as a General Contractor, building additions, remodels and decks. I can guarantee you, if this were a permitted deck. We would be required to support it at the wall somehow.

Your missing something, I'm sure my explanation was not unstood. I'll let it drop. Good Luck

Don

 

[class clown]

Houston, I think we have a problem.

So I was a little bored today, so I opened up the back of the wall w/ a router to see what we are looking at. I found 1 electrical wire which is easy enough to re-route, but what the heck do I do with these two 6" HVAC vent pipes? I am totally dense when it comes to ventalation/duct work.

:badgrin: :badgrin: :razz: :eek2: :|

 

[trido]

No problem. Just more work.

 

[trido]

Your missing something, I'm sure my explanation was not unstood. I'll let it drop. Good Luck

Don

You are correct. Regardless, it will be strong.

 

[salmonslayer]

That looks like a two hour fire wall. Could be Major problems and alot of work. The good thing is you have 2x6 and could make it work (flex hose) JMO good luck

 

[DonW]

Man that is a drag. Good thing you didnt just break out the sawsall.

Don

 

[class clown]

Yep - glad just routed this out vs. sawing it. I was thinking about doing the later, but knew there was electrical in there, just didn't know about the ventalation pipes.

Here's what I'm worried about.. where to reroute????

This thing is snug in it's spot. I only have a 12" section on the right between the studs and a 12" section on the left between the studs. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, except......

on the right, I have an existing 4" crapper pipe for the upstairs bathroom. And on the left, I have an electrical switch with I'm sure a bunch of electrical wires running through it.

See - there's not much, if any manuevering room.

Criakee!!!

 

[NC2WA]

Ben,

Sounds like you need reinforcements and a good general contractor to help you out.

Kirk

 

[trido]

Unfortunately, I woke up thinkinig about this job. Man I hate it when I bring my work home (and to bed) with me.

Ben, If you can figure out weather they are heating ducts or cold air returns for me it will make a huge difference in what we can do there. Also, are they a standard 3.25"x10" duct or something else?