In Wall - going for it! - seeking your ideas/feedback/advice

[class clown]

Well, Scott actually came over and we took a closer look at this. Turns out the big block thing on the top was actually intake for air into the furnace (I thought it was an output), and the two pipes in the wall are outputs that carry hot air to the second floor. essentially, the idea of tapping into it won't work.

However, i have 2 options:

1) option #1: cut & cap the pipes - essentially this means I won't get warm air to at least two vents upstairs. The good news is heat rises.

2) option #2: (Also the one Scott recomends) - tap into the pipes at the bottom, bring it around to the side, swing it back around top and reconnect the pipes. REady for another fun visual... I thought so.. here it goes...

 

[dragoneggs]

Man... I am feeling for you right now. Keep your chin up with this project.

 

[NC2WA]

I am feeling for him as well esp. when he has to break the news to his wife.

Honey.......

<Ben, you know I'm just kidding>

 

[class clown]

ohh.. its not that bad guys. comeon. Hey, its your classic remodel, right? - you always run into something. This just happened to be a big something.

Anyhow, constructoin starts up again tomorrow! I'm pretty pumped. Duane's coming over and we need to open up the rest of the wall, run electrical, install the header, etc. Should be fun.. doubt well get it all done in one day, but we'll see how far we make it.

Scott (szidls) is going to be helping me with the ventalation pipes after that - most likely next week. Thanks for coming over today Scott - I really appreciate you helping me out.

---
if anyone feels like stopping over to help out or see the progress, drop me a line. Otherwise, I'll try to share some pics with our progress at the end of the day.

wish us luck that we don't hit anymore snags!
----

 

[james734]

I think the idea you have diagrammed above is about your best option. Glad you got the flow into the furnace all figured out. FYI: Typically, the air duct into the top a the furnace is the return air (Air from the house that is now cold) and the hot/cold (AC) air is blown out the bottom and into the crawl space and up the walls to upstairs etc.. As you've found out. ....

Anyway I've been looking at the picture above I think your idea is about the best it's going to get, unless you really want to break out the big guns and go all out remodel on it. The other option like that someone else mentioned is to just figure out what rooms above might suffer from the heat loss and see if they have another heat vent in the room. If so, capping them off would be the easiest thing but depending on what's been heated by them might not make it all that comfortable for someone. Hey you can always get a space heater if it's guest room or something, or put the house guest you want to leave soon in there. They'll complain of the lack of heat and leave.. might work good for the unwanted family guests....

 

[class clown]

Scott and I tried to track down where those two pipes end up upstairs and we found ourselves only having a best guess...

1) guest bathroom - no biggie there - can live w/ that.

2) master bedroom - yeah big deal there - need my heat in the winters
or
3)guest bedroom - no biggie there

So, maybe when we actually get the pipes cut, we can plug them and see if we can feel for air not coming out. That's probably our best beet to definitively find out which one's they are, right?

 

[trido]

FYI: Typically, the air duct into the top a the furnace is the return air (Air from the house that is now cold) and the hot/cold (AC) air is blown out the bottom and into the crawl space and up the walls to upstairs etc.. As you've found out. ....

FWIW, I am not an HVAC specialist by any means but.... IMO It is not typical for a furnace to pull the cold air into the top. In the last four months alone, We have remodeled two basements around brand new furnaces, both of which had the fresh air intakes on the bottom of the unit. In all my years of residential remodeling. Typically old houses as you could guess. I have never noticed a furnace with the cold air retun on the top. I am not trying to start an argument but am only stating what I have seen in houses ranging from 20-80 years old.

Maybe if Scott reads this he can clarify the norm and we can all be more educated in the HVAC standards of residential heating


Regarding this furnace in question. I did notice the blended air system attached to the duct but dismissed it on a hope that the duct was a heating chase. It would have made a few of our lives easier.

 

[Scooterman]

All I can say Is Hang in there Ben, you went this far, IMO it is too far to stop at this point! Just a word of encouragement, sorry I can't help from this distance!

 

[james734]

FWIW, I am not an HVAC specialist by any means but.... IMO It is not typical for a furnace to pull the cold air into the top. In the last four months alone, We have remodeled two basements around brand new furnaces, both of which had the fresh air intakes on the bottom of the unit. In all my years of residential remodeling. Typically old houses as you could guess. I have never noticed a furnace with the cold air retun on the top. I am not trying to start an argument but am only stating what I have seen in houses ranging from 20-80 years old.

Maybe if Scott reads this he can clarify the norm and we can all be more educated in the HVAC standards of residential heating


Regarding this furnace in question. I did notice the blended air system attached to the duct but dismissed it on a hope that the duct was a heating chase. It would have made a few of our lives easier.

Agree, maybe I should of stated that in all the new home construction that I've seen, instead of typical... No argument here.

 

[szidls]

In Ben's house the cold air return is the large rectangular duct above in the garage. There are 2 return grills. One just inside the garage door on the ceiling and one in the upstairs hall. This allows return air to be drawn from both floors for circulation. The supply/warm end of the furnace is blowing down into the supply plenum which feeds the entry level through the crawl space . The second level is also fed off the supply plenum as the ducts run from the plenum to either an interior or exterior wall and up to the second level.
As for just capping off the 2 supplys in the wall, Ben we can certainly check that out. Will let your wife make the call where she doesn't mind a vent being off.......
About furnace installation.....I have seen them installed in any manner of direction. Supply up, down, or horizontal. It basically depends on the style of house and what ever is easiest.
Scott

 

[class clown]

As for just capping off the 2 supplys in the wall, Ben we can certainly check that out. Will let your wife make the call where she doesn't mind a vent being off.......

Scott - I know one goes to the guest bathroom upstairs - we never use it. I wouldn't mind capping that one off. As for the other one, I still can't tell where it goes. We may have to try the old shouting down the pipe routine to figure it out.

 

[trido]

Oh I cant wait for the new set of pics. My eyes are dry and chalky from sheetrock dust and my arms itch from insulation. We did well today.

 

[class clown]

Today was like the best day ever! I am so pumped. We got way more accomplished than I thought and it looks SLICK!!!!!

Duane (trido) came over, opened up the rest of the wall, cut the vent pipes, installed the header up top & down low, ran a new outlet that I'm going to use for my CL, attached the stand to the wall, ensured everything was plumb & square, rotohammered several pins into the concrete, phewwww - that's a lot..

what a day, what a day!!!! Thank you Duane!

here's some pics so you all can see progress.

Again - thank you Duane!

 

[trido]

I am also pumped about this project (if you couldnt tell when I left).
After the HVAC is altered we can put the wall back together and focus on the electrical.
Does anyone have any opinions on using 15 amp circuits for the job? We are hoping to use some large leftover spools of 14awg wire in the metal conduit.
There will be a total of three circuits with the biggest draw on any one circuit being the lighting at 14.6 amps if Ben uses three icecap 440s for the T-5s.

 

[NC2WA]

Nice touch with the beer bottles.

 

[class clown]

Nice touch with the beer bottles.

you like that ehh Kirk? projects are always better when you end the day w/ a cold one.

 

[dailydriven911]

Nice job guys! I like the last pic as well:lol:

 

[class clown]

Well.. just got back from the PSAS event w/ Jake Adams - Now he's got me rethinking once again the whole flow concept/idea.. dangit... I hate second guessing myself. I just really want to get it right this time...

 

[trido]

That'll teach you to try to learn something new. Im glad I didnt go as Id probably be in the plumbing dept. right now.

 

[Scooterman]

I am also pumped about this project (if you couldnt tell when I left).
After the HVAC is altered we can put the wall back together and focus on the electrical.
Does anyone have any opinions on using 15 amp circuits for the job? We are hoping to use some large leftover spools of 14awg wire in the metal conduit.
There will be a total of three circuits with the biggest draw on any one circuit being the lighting at 14.6 amps if Ben uses three icecap 440s for the T-5s.

You can't draw 14.6 amps on a 15a breaker, won't work but no problem with using 15a circuits as long as you divide the load up properly, If you have room add 4 circuits instead of three & split the lighting on that. One thing to consider conduit isn't cheap, mice can't eat into it, only downfall you need more circuits but just as safe as running 20a circuits.