In Wall - going for it! - seeking your ideas/feedback/advice

[class clown]

thanks Paul. ultimately you were one of the reasons I decided to try to switch up my flow design -you had tried the backwards barreling effect on your tank and had complaints with it - would you mind sharing a little more of your experience here on the thread about why you are now considering straying from this design. It may help people think i'm less crazy. ;-)

p.s. I'm still slighlty crazy,just not as much as you all may think I am ;-)

Well I love the idea of using both. and like you said you've got em already so why not !!!

Where did you get the MBV and timer settup ? and you could adjust the time as much or little as you want or even randomize it assuming the timer lets you do that !

 

[kendog261]

p.s. I'm still slighlty crazy,just not as much as you all may think I am ;-)

Yes Yes you are

sounds like your having a great time with the new project.

 

[CarlaW]

p.s. I'm still slighlty crazy,just not as much as you all may think I am ;-)

I am pretty sure I am glad I am not one of your clients.

 

[class clown]

I am pretty sure I am glad I am not one of your clients.

if by "client"you mean wife, I understand. ;-)

 

[Damsel13]

Oh my goodness Ben you have clients? hehe. JK. You are under alot of stress right now. And, HEY I am a wife.
Have a great weekend.

 

[Snowboarda42]

Ben,

Sounds like I'll be over pretty soon to weld you up that lighting rack!

 

[plack]

I have a standard 180 aga with a oceans motion 4 way the recomendations I got were:
having the 4 returns of the closed loop 2 at the front near the bottom centered and about 4 feet + apart angled to the back and up at 45º.
The two at the back were in the same location but straught across the sand just a few inches higher with the sump return going straight down from the center back wall.


Well it was recommended to change the return to a seaswirl and a manifold.

The result was so- so good flow in spots not so good in others.

After talking to paul at OM about the possabilitys of getting it to change slower i knew would need help to do that !

Also paul has noted that it is advantageous to do so in longer tanks !!!

After the last psas meeting and hearing jakes flow-coral growth data.
I want to get a swirl going ( like you would stir up salt and water in a 5 gallon bucket with your hand) and reverse it a few times an hour.

I will try re plumbing my tank internally (a little) to see if it can be done with the current timer but the original desighn paul at om. mentioned does not work well in my tank !!




Paul

 

[Elmo18]

WOw, lots of talk about flow

IMO, I would go either the OM that you have, or the Tunzes as Don mentioned earlier.

Both are reliable, and seem to be getting the job done. HOwever, Tunzes are lower in wattage, but there is that one drawback as you mentioned...the size..

Best,
Ilham

 

[plack]

Right now my om is two in front then two in back. With that combination I get one going a long distance 5 feet the other trying to turn a corner 1 foot from the end and then it switches .It does not seem to do much at all as far flow! I have tried all 4 in one direction and that works but I cant just change it like ben could with all the equipment he allready has !!!

 

[spongebob lover]

LOL Ben, you change your mind like you change your undies :shock::lol:.

no it sounds like a good idea and it's awesome you're putting a lot of thought into this project ........now, can we see it finished !! .

 

[trido]

LOL Ben, you change your mind like you change your undies :shock::lol:.

no it sounds like a good idea and it's awesome you're putting a lot of thought into this project ........now, can we see it finished !! .

Ya! whats going on with that duct work anyway. You'd better come by and pick out your catastrophy frags. Im getting an itch to do some BR store credit for some more variety for the new tank.

 

[class clown]

Ya! whats going on with that duct work anyway. You'd better come by and pick out your catastrophy frags. Im getting an itch to do some BR store credit for some more variety for the new tank.

I found out today which rooms the two ducts go to: 1) the guest bedroom 2) the guest bathroom. This is good news b/c they are the least important in my opinion - we rarely use either. However, I did discuss just plugging the vents w/ Kelly (my wife) vs. rerouting them and she won't go for it... surprise, surprise, right? So, yeah, will have to have Scott come over maybe sometime this week to help me w/ the duct work.

Additionally, I'm hoping Elliot (snowborda42) and I can get together soon and put together a new lighting rack. Because of size restrictions w the new ductwork, the other rack I have now can only raise 18" or so which is just not enough for some of those bigger rocks. It'll need a sliding rail system - I'm thinking of utilizing barn door rollers. I've seen this sort of design on Steve Weast's system (click here if you don't know who I'm talking about) and it seems to work well. Mine would probably be all metal though - I like the industrial look.

 

[class clown]

Stay tuned... he he..

plumbing maze

I'm planning on ordering up the additional plumbing parts tomorrow.

 

[Damsel13]

of course I know who you are talking about! And your wife is right of course .

 

[Scooterman]

Stay tuned... he he..

plumbing maze



I'm planning on ordering up the additional plumbing parts tomorrow.

Wasted I say! JMO! :lol:

If your going to attempt this then do it right, use another pump & separate the OM from the MBV for maximum flow options. Use the MBV for the upper region flow & the OM like you had it covering the front bottom & the back creating that directional flow. The MBV would just swap flow up top.
Now with that said, I have to think you would be just fine with the OM unit & not over complicating things. JMO again.

 

[trido]

If your going to attempt this then do it right, use another pump & separate the OM from the MBV for maximum flow options.
I have to think you would be just fine with the OM unit & not over complicating things. JMO again.

I really, really agree with these two statements. I would recommend either using two Darts with the MBV and the OM, or just the OM with the Hammerhead alone..

 

[class clown]

Wasted I say! JMO! :lol:
Now with that said, I have to think you would be just fine with the OM unit & not over complicating things. JMO again.

hmmm... 1) we have Paul (plack) saying he's already tried this backward barreling effect and it didn't work out for him. 2) Plus, it's unidirectional flow vs. bidirectional flow which we already decided were survive vs. thrive conditions. Are we sure we really want to go back to this design? If yes, what's the rebutal to these two issues above?

If your going to attempt this then do it right, use another pump & separate the OM from the MBV for maximum flow options. Use the MBV for the upper region flow & the OM like you had it covering the front bottom & the back creating that directional flow.

Would I be able to generate the water inertia that I'm after in this scenario? It seems to me that the units are not operating in unisen like they would be with my newest plan. By operating in unisen, I can control the spinning & inertia of the water column (one direction shuts off and the other comes on). But w/ this design, they are both always on, I just attempt to push water in a spinning direction one way sometimes against the current of the OM (depends on the timing of the OM - 15 seconds on/15 seconds off), and sometimes not. Then I attempt to push it in the other way, sometimes against the current, and sometimes not. It seems to me, I'm just creating random turbulent flow and I actually have less control. yes?

 

[Scooterman]

To be honest, I don't quite understand your last drawing

I think your missing one thing, that much flow from any direction will be bouncing back like crazy, it will be redirected rather quickly off the opposing surfaces.

I would do some testing with the actual pumps somehow, simulate real life water movement, maybe in a big tub.

 

[class clown]

To be honest, I don't quite understand your last drawing

I think your missing one thing, that much flow from any direction will be bouncing back like crazy, it will be redirected rather quickly off the opposing surfaces.

I would do some testing with the actual pumps somehow, simulate real life water movement, maybe in a big tub.

The last drawing was just something I put together last night as I was attempting to trace out all of the plumbing parts that I'd need to make the design represented in post #587 work. It is essentially a side view drawing of the plumbing. Well, part of it at least. It's still the same flow design as post #587, so visit that.

as far as the bounching back, keep in mind the shape/design of the tank (4 x 4 x 2 cube). w/ all spouts pointed clockwise to channel flow in a spinning direction when the MBV releases water in in one direction, and all spouts pointed counterclockwise which pushes flow the opposite direction a few minutes later when the MBV changes directions. doesn't water more disperse than bounce back when it hits an object?

I can't simulate this in a bathtub b/c the tub has rounded corners and I can't simulate how the two rock islands woudl effect the current.

 

[class clown]

For all that are curious, i sent Jake my design (didn't tell him about the OM and MBV together, just that the blues woudl go off at one time, and then would come the greens)

Here was his reply..

"Hey Ben,
Sorry I havent gotten back to you yet but I promise that your email was "starred" for response, just been busy house sitting in the mtns w/ intermittent access to the internets. I like your diagram and I can appreciate the amount of effort you are putting towards getting high quality flow speeds. Ah but then you are trying to do a cube tank and those are hard. Whereas a typical gyre in an elongated aquarium will produce two mostly laminar streams of flow going past each other, in a cube shaped aquarium you will have a merry go round effect where the flow will be fastest on the perimeter (where there will probably not be any corals) and slowest towards the interior of the gyre (where you will likely keep all of your corals). I like the placement of your holes whether you do a spin or a roll and I think you should experiment (with or without your rock in place) before you hard plumb anything. With locline and eductors on the outlets it should be no problem to re-orient their directionality to produce the spin or the barrel. Test it with freshwater and add oatmeal or brine shrimp eggs to see the direction and speed that your flow exhibits. Don't hesitate to email me back with further questions. Good luck and let me know how it goes.
Sincerely,
Jake Adams"