Let's Talk About ~Algae Control~
- Thread starter NaH2O
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reedman
Well-known member
if it's the brown algae that has a texture like kelp (thick layers that grow like coraline) then there are certain urchins that will consume it.
ldrhawke
John
wave98 said:This first article is a GREAT read !
This second article and the "study" it represents, is "Highly tainted" with poor technique, and Political agenda. I suggest this article be ignored as so much "balderdash" ! ! !
I have run across the higher phosphate "release" from larger media elsewhere, and neither confirm nor deny it. Just avoid the above article and get the info. somewhere else.
Happy Reef Keeping ! > Wave98
I didn't see any political agenda when I read it. I thought the testing procedures were some of the best that I have seen and the techniques were very good, especially when you compare it to the normal seat of the pants opinions often expressed by many of the experts. What is the basis of your derogatory statments? Did I miss something? :shock:
NaH2O
Well-known member
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Oh, I forgot about that article. We had a thread on it back in August: Hmmm anyone want to talk about this one??
jtmints - Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!
Can you describe the algae a little bit? Does it grow really close to the rocks? Check out this thread and see if it resembles what you have: ID this Algae Please
jtmints - Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!
Can you describe the algae a little bit? Does it grow really close to the rocks? Check out this thread and see if it resembles what you have: ID this Algae Please
wave98
Pearly
Here is the political agenda:
Quote:
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We did not test bare bottom tanks, but the data clearly suggest that the shallower the sediment, the higher the mortality rate, and you can't get much shallower than a bare bottom tank!
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That isn't political ? ?
Quote:
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We have labeled the sediment treatment that is closest to each popular aquarium design in Figure 10 for comparison. The Jaubert plenum design uses an intermediate depth sediment bed, so we have labeled both the deep and shallow plenum design with "Jaubert." Given our results, we would expect the true Jaubert plenum design to fall roughly halfway between these two extremes.
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A very unfair "expectation" considering how adamant Bob Goemans is about grain size, and most especially "depth". A bit "political" therefore as well.
Poor technique:
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During the experiment, the maximum air temperature recorded was 33ºC (~91ºF) and the minimum air temperature recorded was 19ºC (~66ºF); aquarium temperatures varied less than these extremes, and ranged from 22 and 30ºC (~72 to 86ºF).
Although this sounds like only a light stocking level, it is important to keep in mind that the nano-tanks used for this experiment were only 3 gallons. Also, the deep sediment trials were half filled with sand leaving only half the aquarium volume for water and animals. If we were to scale this stocking level up to a 50 gallon tank, we'd have 50 lbs of live rock, 90g of fish (roughly equivalent to 8 or 9 adult yellow tangs), 16 golf-ball sized urchins, 220 hermit crabs, 220 snails and all the natural infauna associated with a natural coral reef environment. Clearly when you think of the stocking level on that scale, each tank contained a decent bioload relative to a well-stocked reef tank.
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This is not how I would run my tank, and I want to see "studies" that relate directly to Reef aquariums. No "Lagoonal", or "Eestuarial" studies, thank you very much. These are sand bed "boys", no doubt about it.
I am very much in favor of sand beds, for the proper application, Bare Bottom systems too, espesially for SPS dominated tanks. I don't care much for Standard Plenums, and I think Wasting Plenums hold more promise than anything I currently know of. Except maybe for a properly executed RUGF ! !
Sorry for the "Rant", Hawke, I just am tired of Almost "maybe-good" information.
> Wave98
Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We did not test bare bottom tanks, but the data clearly suggest that the shallower the sediment, the higher the mortality rate, and you can't get much shallower than a bare bottom tank!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That isn't political ? ?
Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have labeled the sediment treatment that is closest to each popular aquarium design in Figure 10 for comparison. The Jaubert plenum design uses an intermediate depth sediment bed, so we have labeled both the deep and shallow plenum design with "Jaubert." Given our results, we would expect the true Jaubert plenum design to fall roughly halfway between these two extremes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A very unfair "expectation" considering how adamant Bob Goemans is about grain size, and most especially "depth". A bit "political" therefore as well.
Poor technique:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
During the experiment, the maximum air temperature recorded was 33ºC (~91ºF) and the minimum air temperature recorded was 19ºC (~66ºF); aquarium temperatures varied less than these extremes, and ranged from 22 and 30ºC (~72 to 86ºF).
Although this sounds like only a light stocking level, it is important to keep in mind that the nano-tanks used for this experiment were only 3 gallons. Also, the deep sediment trials were half filled with sand leaving only half the aquarium volume for water and animals. If we were to scale this stocking level up to a 50 gallon tank, we'd have 50 lbs of live rock, 90g of fish (roughly equivalent to 8 or 9 adult yellow tangs), 16 golf-ball sized urchins, 220 hermit crabs, 220 snails and all the natural infauna associated with a natural coral reef environment. Clearly when you think of the stocking level on that scale, each tank contained a decent bioload relative to a well-stocked reef tank.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not how I would run my tank, and I want to see "studies" that relate directly to Reef aquariums. No "Lagoonal", or "Eestuarial" studies, thank you very much. These are sand bed "boys", no doubt about it.
I am very much in favor of sand beds, for the proper application, Bare Bottom systems too, espesially for SPS dominated tanks. I don't care much for Standard Plenums, and I think Wasting Plenums hold more promise than anything I currently know of. Except maybe for a properly executed RUGF ! !
Sorry for the "Rant", Hawke, I just am tired of Almost "maybe-good" information.
> Wave98
ldrhawke
John
wave98 said:Here is the political agenda:
Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We did not test bare bottom tanks, but the data clearly suggest that the shallower the sediment, the higher the mortality rate, and you can't get much shallower than a bare bottom tank!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That isn't political ? ?
Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We have labeled the sediment treatment that is closest to each popular aquarium design in Figure 10 for comparison. The Jaubert plenum design uses an intermediate depth sediment bed, so we have labeled both the deep and shallow plenum design with "Jaubert." Given our results, we would expect the true Jaubert plenum design to fall roughly halfway between these two extremes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A very unfair "expectation" considering how adamant Bob Goemans is about grain size, and most especially "depth". A bit "political" therefore as well.
Poor technique:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
During the experiment, the maximum air temperature recorded was 33ºC (~91ºF) and the minimum air temperature recorded was 19ºC (~66ºF); aquarium temperatures varied less than these extremes, and ranged from 22 and 30ºC (~72 to 86ºF).
Although this sounds like only a light stocking level, it is important to keep in mind that the nano-tanks used for this experiment were only 3 gallons. Also, the deep sediment trials were half filled with sand leaving only half the aquarium volume for water and animals. If we were to scale this stocking level up to a 50 gallon tank, we'd have 50 lbs of live rock, 90g of fish (roughly equivalent to 8 or 9 adult yellow tangs), 16 golf-ball sized urchins, 220 hermit crabs, 220 snails and all the natural infauna associated with a natural coral reef environment. Clearly when you think of the stocking level on that scale, each tank contained a decent bioload relative to a well-stocked reef tank.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not how I would run my tank, and I want to see "studies" that relate directly to Reef aquariums. No "Lagoonal", or "Eestuarial" studies, thank you very much. These are sand bed "boys", no doubt about it.
I am very much in favor of sand beds, for the proper application, Bare Bottom systems too, espesially for SPS dominated tanks. I don't care much for Standard Plenums, and I think Wasting Plenums hold more promise than anything I currently know of. Except maybe for a properly executed RUGF ! !
Sorry for the "Rant", Hawke, I just am tired of Almost "maybe-good" information.
> Wave98
NO, NO, Poor control but all tanks saw the same poor control.
I think your statements, based on you preferences, were far more politcial in nature than any conclusion reached in the testing. see my full response here (http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12651
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wave98
Pearly
dabears26 said:
Sure it is. It could be diatoms or something else, but don't worry. Just see what happens for several weeks. It will probably subside on it's own. If it gets thick enough to become a "mat" that extends for a couple of inches or more, then remove some of it gently, or throw in some snails. Maybe crabs too, but keep the number of crabs low, as they can decimate pod populations.
The "mat" condition needs to be avoided because it restricts oxygenation at the surface, and can set-up it's own "micro-environment" that is self-propogating for algae growth.
Happy Reef Keeping ! > Wave98
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wave98
Pearly
ldrhawke said:
I am the most Non-political person you will ever run across. BB, DSB, even Plenums, run very well when set-up and operated appropriately. I don't happen to care much for standard plenums, since even their originators explain that they operate properly "Only with LIGHT bio-loads" and "No sifters allowed".
The Authors took a completely obvious "swipe" at Bare Bottom tanks in the final conclusion of the article, when they did not even test one. That is my biggest complaint. I don't have a "side", but if I were forced onto one it would be sand bed.
Here, however, I am defending BB against unreasonable attack. You may take that as you wish.
Happy Reef Keeping ! > Barry
nazareno
New member
I just joinned reef frontiers looking for suggestions on how to control green hair algae that has almost entirely covered my live rock. I was told that a good alternative is aquire a Lawnmower Blenny. I have UV, Protein Skimmer, chiller, lots of water flow,super compac lighting setup contolled by timers and moonlights for 24 hour light cycle simulation, use phosphate controller, purigen, Chemi Pure, feedding is very controlled. This green hair algae is so out of control that its killing my corals. Appreciatte all the suggestions I can get. My tank is 72 Gal Bow front and it has filtering for a 300 gal tank.
ethanriley
Well-known member
Welcome to Reef Frontiers! To add to Nikki's questions what is your photo period? Is there anything in the tank that may have died and given you a nitrate spike? What type of live rock is it? Give us so more info on salinity, ph, water changes, calcium levels, KH (water hardness). Like she said parameters
I also have a bad hair algae problem. Working on the nudibranch and urchin fix as well. Will include a pic if allowed. I have a question. I also have a small white wormlike things all over the live rock and in my wet/dry filter. They can be easly scraped off the filter with a razor. On closer examination, they don't look to be alive mabe calcium deposits? New to the hobbie, about a year old 90 gal tank, wet/dry and a canister mag350 running all paramaters look good nitrate, nitrite, ammo, phos, ph, all within accepted limits. Salinity is a little high 1.028 but the fish seem to like it. Any help here would be great.
Thanks all,
Bill
Thanks all,
Bill
Nazareno, how long has this tank been set up?
Sneeker, nudibranches are carnivores and will not eat any algae, urchins will but if you have a really bad algae bloom, it will grow faster than the urchins will eat it. Also how old is your tank? I am only asking because algae control is different in a new tank than an old tank. If the tank is only a few months old there may not be anything you can do to eliminate algae because you have corals in there. A tank really needs to age a few months, preferably over a year before corals are added because of this problem. The algae will eventually use up all of the nutrients if you keep removing it and it will disappear but in that time you may lose your corals. You will read about urchins, sea hares, rabbit fish, snails, crabs and grenades but the algae will die off when it is ready. In the meantime, pull out as much as you can, hardly feed at all, I don't know what type of substrate you have so I can't recommend much else. Don't get discouraged, it will leave.
Good luck.
Paul
Sneeker, nudibranches are carnivores and will not eat any algae, urchins will but if you have a really bad algae bloom, it will grow faster than the urchins will eat it. Also how old is your tank? I am only asking because algae control is different in a new tank than an old tank. If the tank is only a few months old there may not be anything you can do to eliminate algae because you have corals in there. A tank really needs to age a few months, preferably over a year before corals are added because of this problem. The algae will eventually use up all of the nutrients if you keep removing it and it will disappear but in that time you may lose your corals. You will read about urchins, sea hares, rabbit fish, snails, crabs and grenades but the algae will die off when it is ready. In the meantime, pull out as much as you can, hardly feed at all, I don't know what type of substrate you have so I can't recommend much else. Don't get discouraged, it will leave.
Good luck.
Paul
NaH2O
Well-known member
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- Jan 25, 2004
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Sneeker - Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!
Do the white wormlike things look like spirals? If so, they are a spirorbid polychaete, which are harmless filter feeders. Here is an extreme close-up of them:
Do you have a skimmer on the tank? Also, curious to what your parameters are, even though you said they are all within the accepted limits. How many fish do you have? How much and how often are you feeding? When you say nudibranch, are you referring to the lettuce sea slug?
Do the white wormlike things look like spirals? If so, they are a spirorbid polychaete, which are harmless filter feeders. Here is an extreme close-up of them:
Do you have a skimmer on the tank? Also, curious to what your parameters are, even though you said they are all within the accepted limits. How many fish do you have? How much and how often are you feeding? When you say nudibranch, are you referring to the lettuce sea slug?
Do you have a skimmer on the tank? Also, curious to what your parameters are, even though you said they are all within the accepted limits. How many fish do you have? How much and how often are you feeding? When you say nudibranch, are you referring to the lettuce sea slug?
__________________
Yes to the skimmer works well, parameters are ammo 0.0 ph 8.2 nitrate 0.0 nitrite 0.0 temp 76.5 sil 1.028 (a little high) fish = tomato clown, 2 yellow tang, 4 damsels, snails, crabs (hermit, emeral) enomeny (sic) for the clown button coral and carpet coral. feed a pinch once a day. 90 gal tank with wet/dry and a mag 350 canister filter. 10 percent water changes about every 10 days using r/o water and instant ocean mix.
tell me how to upload a pic to the thread and I'll send you one. with the little white things in the rock and filter also.
Bill
__________________
Yes to the skimmer works well, parameters are ammo 0.0 ph 8.2 nitrate 0.0 nitrite 0.0 temp 76.5 sil 1.028 (a little high) fish = tomato clown, 2 yellow tang, 4 damsels, snails, crabs (hermit, emeral) enomeny (sic) for the clown button coral and carpet coral. feed a pinch once a day. 90 gal tank with wet/dry and a mag 350 canister filter. 10 percent water changes about every 10 days using r/o water and instant ocean mix.
tell me how to upload a pic to the thread and I'll send you one. with the little white things in the rock and filter also.
Bill
Sneeker lettuce nudis do eat hair or bryopsis, but they really wont make a dent if you have a large ammount of algae. A Phosphate test would also be in order as it is the main food for algae in our tanks. You could also do those P tests in various areas such as top off water, sand if you have, up along the rocks and from the water column.
What kind of additives and food do you feed?
Mike
What kind of additives and food do you feed?
Mike
Hello there Mike, actually lettuce "slugs" (there are no lettuce nudi's") do eat bryopsis, thats about all they eat. I raise the suckers. I had over 100 of them and I did a test with about 20 of them in a one gallon tank with hair algae. They would not touch it as much as I could see. The bryopsis they sucked to death. Here is an article I wrote about them. and a picture of one of mine.
Have fun.
Paul
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/baldassano2004/SolarPoweredSlug.htm
Have fun.
Paul
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/baldassano2004/SolarPoweredSlug.htm
NaH2O
Well-known member
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Paul - I've had a lettuce slug in my system for quite sometime, and no bryopsis. I started out with one big slug that had babies (about 8 that I could count)....of which 2 survived, and now only one still exists in my tank, and has grown considerably. It was December of 2004 that I noted the slug babies in my system, and at the end of Jan 2005, there were only two left (skimmer and plumbing incidents from what I recall). I still do not have bryopsis in my system, so it must be surviving on something other than that. Prior to my tear down and set-up, I had turf and bubble aglaes, and prior to the turf and bubble, I had a hair algae problem about a year ago, that eventually died off and turf took over.
