Let's talk about Bacteria in a Bottle

[mojoreef]

kpiotrowski you need to relax my friend. The product you are referencing is bacteria, and yes it will show you the results you are sharing, but this product and similar products have been around for a long time. No one is saying it is bad or counter-productive its just nothing new? I am sorry if we are all not as excited as you are but saying stuff like no intelligent reefer asking questions about it is not really a good approach? dont you think?

mojo

 

[Krish]

Yes products that don't work have been around for ever. been keeping fish for 10 years and have always had many tanks BUT last years I found a product for freshwater that actually does work ( tetra safe start) and I am questioning if this turbo start will work with salt.

since there is nobody following this thread that seems to actually be interested in the end results I will end this thread now. perhaps if in the end I find that it is a good product then I will post again...if not here on reefrontiers ( ironic that we are reeFRONTIERS and yet resistiant to new products don't you think) then on onother forum.

everyone has been very pleasant and helpfull thus far! and thank you for that! But this thread is a serious waste of my time!

Sorry you feel this way, but you are looking at things from the wrong angle and getting upset it seems for no apparent reason. You know, people can disagree here. You may not be getting the responses you want here because as mentioned these things have been around forever and this new product is not the "new magic bullet" to reefkeeping or cycling. If it were, it would be the biggest topic on every forum and in every magazine, but un-fortunately it is not. This is nothing new...Same thing with a diffferent name. Also, you can't compare freshwater aquarium keeping experience to saltwater reefkeeping. If you do, then you will probably fail in this hobby like I did when I started out 7 years ago. They are totally different. For example, you can stock a freshwater tank on the very first day you start it up, but not this hobby so I'd try not to compare the two. There is more to this hobby than a bottle of "cycle".

 

[Krish]

Guess Mojo and I were replying the same time and as I can see, we are basically are on the same page. I've been knocking around in this hobby long enough to know a little bit about what you are talking about which is the reason for my views on it. If others chimed in, I'm afraid the vast majority will echo the same. I'm glad the product is doing what you want it to do for you and that's all that matters. Once you are happy then that's all that matters.

 

[user 26995]

Also want to add that as most of us have seen these products before and some of us have used these products before so we are familiar with them, there are a LOT of new members that have not heard of these products and they would bennifit from reading a good thread on the product. Them not being familiar enough would also not reply to the thread but like I said, would bennifit from your experience. IMO, you should continue this thread. Thats what we are all here for is to share our experiences for others to learn from.

 

[kpiotrowski]

then here is the update. I added a few more fish to try to build some ammonia etc and will add more of the turbo start when I see some but so far have none. also, a member of this form and over 30 years in the hobby who does not want to get involved in this apparent drama with the negativity. just used the product in a new tank last night at 6pm with well over .5ppm ammonia and off the charts nitrite and just reported zero ammonia or nitrite.

 

[kpiotrowski]

kpiotrowski you need to relax my friend. The product you are referencing is bacteria, and yes it will show you the results you are sharing, but this product and similar products have been around for a long time. No one is saying it is bad or counter-productive its just nothing new? I am sorry if we are all not as excited as you are but saying stuff like no intelligent reefer asking questions about it is not really a good approach? dont you think?

mojo

I never said "intelligent reefer" I said experienced reefer asking intelligent questions.

 

[kpiotrowski]

It's not skepticism nor is it just opinions. These products have been out forever and is nothing really new. Just think, if it was that easy, wouldn't everyone be doing this?


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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

everyone has a protien skimmer NOW...but there was a time when it was questionable. how are you supposed to find new and better ways if you don't put things to the test. and I'm not saying this product is a BETTER way!!!!

 

[Krish]

...who does not want to get involved in this apparent drama with the negativity...

You have a lot to learn my friend about having a discussion on a forum. Not agreeing with someone is not called negativity. It's called a difference of opinion. There is a big difference which you need to learn. You are getting all uptight for no reason. No one is saying the product you are using isn't a good thing. Adding benefical bacteria to a new tank is a good thing wherever it comes from whether it is from a bottle like you are using, some live rock, decaying raw shrimp, live sand, fish poop...Whatever. It's just nothing new. It's been around forever which is the reason no one is excited about it.

everyone has a protien skimmer NOW...but there was a time when it was questionable. how are you supposed to find new and better ways if you don't put things to the test. and I'm not saying this product is a BETTER way!!!!

Same as above...Bacteria in a bottle has been around forever and not the new break through in the hobby. I've used "cycle"/ beneficial bacteria for years in freshwater tanks. It works great, but is old news.

 

[Krish]

since there is nobody following this thread that seems to actually be interested in the end results I will end this thread now.

BTW, this is Mojo and Kirk's thread steming off of an article they wrote. This is the reason Mojo asked you to start your own thread to discuss the product you are talking about as this thread was created to discuss the article itself.

everyone has been very pleasant and helpfull thus far! and thank you for that! But this thread is a serious waste of my time

Once again, this is the discussion thread for the article Kirk and Mojo wrote that is presently on the homepage. If you feel it is a "serious waste of time" then you will know exactly where the negativity you were talking about is coming from. The article they wrote took alot of time, energy and devotion which will help many people. Don't let your feelings get in the way of this thread progressing. As menitoned, there is a such thing as a "difference of opinion" and varying views. Not all people will agree on stuff, but there is a civil way to discuss things rather than calling someones thread a waste of time because it doesn't go along with your train of thought. That is what is called negativity. No-one is sayong bacteria in a bottle can't work or isn't good. We are just saying it is nothing new. It's been around for ages. If someone wants to use it then kudos to them. If someone rather use raw shrimp method, kudos to them as well. Many ways to do things in this hobby and be successful. The fact of the matter is we aren't as enthusiastic about it because we've all been there.


With that said, let's please get this thread back on track. This thread was created to discuss the article not argue over simple things.

 

[akunochi]

Kevin,

I'm not too sure why you got all worked up....you made a statement...we all realize that introducing bacteria in a bottle will lower levels.

The key here is sustainability. Ok I have 10 ppm ammonia...and I introduce enough bacteria to handle 4 times that....then guess what...it all dies....because there is nothing to feed off....then you add a fish the bacteria has to expand except it has all died and now you are cycling because you false cycled in the first place.

I think you are getting upset because you are looking for confirmation that what you are doing is right and you are not getting the answer you wanted.

I've rebuilt import motors for years...but I bet if I tried to do a semi trucks diesel it might not be the same....think about it.

 

[Krish]

Alright, so everything was moved from the other thread here and the discussion on bacteria in a bottle can be continued here. I've said all I have to on the subject as in bacteria in a bottle has been around for a long time. It's not a bad thing, but on that same note not a new thing either. You guys can post your findings and continue the discussion. Your views on bacteria in a bottle may be helpful to others.

 

[Krish]

Kevin,

I'm not too sure why you got all worked up....you made a statement...we all realize that introducing bacteria in a bottle will lower levels.

The key here is sustainability. Ok I have 10 ppm ammonia...and I introduce enough bacteria to handle 4 times that....then guess what...it all dies....because there is nothing to feed off....then you add a fish the bacteria has to expand except it has all died and now you are cycling because you false cycled in the first place.

I think you are getting upset because you are looking for confirmation that what you are doing is right and you are not getting the answer you wanted.

I've rebuilt import motors for years...but I bet if I tried to do a semi trucks diesel it might not be the same....think about it.

Very well said Seth. FInding that right balance it what it is all about. Something is added or removed (bioload) and things will have to shift

 

[gimmito]

Hey guys. I've been asked to chime in regarding "bacteria in a bottle." Some of you may be familiar w/my 450 display thread and some maynot. I've been in the hobby about seven years and have seen many next great things in the hobby. When getting ready to cycle my tank, I could not use the old raw shrimp method because of an open top and my cabinetry not being finished. I couldn't afford having a mad wife complaining of the smell and whatnot.
After much research regarding bacteria and watching a particular podcast of Mr. Saltwater Tank interview w/Dr. Tim Hovanous (where Mr. Saltwater used the "One and Only" and added two clownfish to a uncycled tank) . I decided to go with Dr. Tom's "One and Only." I talked w/Dr. Tim personally and he explained how he discovered the nitrosoma bacteria found in our saltwater tanks, how his patented products work, and how many public aquariums use his products. I used his products and cycled my tank in about 10 days. Dr. Tim supplied me w/ammonium chloride and tried to keep a reading of 2-3 ppm. Now I did use 40 lbs of live sand which helped in the cycling of the tank.
The pro's in using this product are you don't have to deal with the smell or white cloudy tank associated with the raw shrimp method. More importantly, you can control the amount of ammonia during the cycle. Dr. Tim suggest the nitrifying bacteria really take off at 2-3 ppm, anything higher will delay the cycling period.
I am familiar w/Fritz turbo start and that Marco Rock sells their product. It seems to work, but I have no experience with their product. I do know the One and Only are grown and have a experation date (which these type of products should have). All I can attest to is what I tried and have been very happy with the results.

Hope this helps,

Jim

 

[Krish]

Thanks for chiming in Jim! Great info! Keep us up to date with your progress. Well you know I'm following your build thread anyways so I won't miss anything

 

[gimmito]

You are more than welcome Krish. Although my tank is cycled, I'm taking Tony Vargas' advice to do the 90 day rule before stocking. I hope to start quaranting some black ice clowns soon.

 

[kpiotrowski]

thanks gimmito. I have been following your new set-up somewhat but honestly thought you were only cycling with ammonia. do you have any adivice on the calcualtions of how much ammonia per gallon to use to raise the ammonia level a given value? I have added more fish only 10 days later becuase I have not seen any ammonia or nitrite since a day after adding "turbo start 900" and abviously want to develop a good bio filter in preperation for larger loads and not just let is rest at 5 chromis and a small tang in 190 gallons of water.

 

[gimmito]

thanks gimmito. I have been following your new set-up somewhat but honestly thought you were only cycling with ammonia. do you have any adivice on the calcualtions of how much ammonia per gallon to use to raise the ammonia level a given value? I have added more fish only 10 days later becuase I have not seen any ammonia or nitrite since a day after adding "turbo start 900" and abviously want to develop a good bio filter in preperation for larger loads and not just let is rest at 5 chromis and a small tang in 190 gallons of water.

It depends on the volume of water. 200-300 drops of ammonium chloride only gave me a reading of 1.5 ppm when tested in my tank. The bacteria I used really help accelerate the process. How much did you add of the turbo start ? How soon did you start stocking ? Do you see any microfauna ? Copepods ?

 

[kpiotrowski]

Very well said Seth. FInding that right balance it what it is all about. Something is added or removed (bioload) and things will have to shift

below was in response to response that stated that after the bacteria in a bottle ate all the ammonia that they may all somehow just die off.

Not true. you are counting on all the bacteria somhow disapearing. its not an enzyme that neutralizes the ammonia, its living breeding multiplying bacteria that will be there in as much quantities that there are food available for it to sustain itslelf...thats the principle of the biofilter in the first place. as I have previosly posted along with krish " the biofilter is dynamic" always adjusting to the bioload. the reason it take so long to cycle a tank from scratch is you not only have to wait for the bacteria to establish in sufficient quantities, but you have to wait for the differnt types to come along. you cant have the type that eat ammonia untill the ones that make ammonia are in place and so on.

 

[kpiotrowski]

It depends on the volume of water. 200-300 drops of ammonium chloride only gave me a reading of 1.5 ppm when tested in my tank. The bacteria I used really help accelerate the process. How much did you add of the turbo start ? How soon did you start stocking ? Do you see any microfauna ? Copepods ?

started with all dry rock and nothing biologically active in 190g of water. had .5 ammonia from the decaying matter on the dry rock after only 2 days. added 5 small chromis on day 2 with a bottle good for only 75 gallons which ate all ammonia and nitrite in 12 hours and started building nitrate. zero ammonia or nitrite since. day 5 or so added kole tang, yesterday, on day 11 i added 2 clowns and a coral beauty and am awaiting ammonia etc with a bottle of turbo start good for 75g on hand.. thats it in a nutshell for now.

 

[akunochi]

below was in response to response that stated that after the bacteria in a bottle ate all the ammonia that they may all somehow just die off.

Not true. you are counting on all the bacteria somhow disapearing. its not an enzyme that neutralizes the ammonia, its living breeding multiplying bacteria that will be there in as much quantities that there are food available for it to sustain itslelf...thats the principle of the biofilter in the first place. as I have previosly posted along with krish " the biofilter is dynamic" always adjusting to the bioload. the reason it take so long to cycle a tank from scratch is you not only have to wait for the bacteria to establish in sufficient quantities, but you have to wait for the differnt types to come along. you cant have the type that eat ammonia untill the ones that make ammonia are in place and so on.

Yep you;re right...it is a living organism that has to have a source of fuel to survive. So if you take a tank with a couple chromis and a tang.....feed it a bunch of bacteria capable of handling 7 times that load then guess what champ the bacteria will die off due to a lack of fuel to survive. So while you see immediate results from introducing the large colonies of bacteria it is a truly false reading because your bio filter will have to readjust to a level appropriate for your tank.

Now the issue become in the fact that there are different zones needed for a complete nitrogen cycle to complete. Both aerobic and Anaerobic bacterial strains are needed. This CANNOT be accomplished in a tank using a quick start because you haven't allowed time for your anaerobic zones to develop. Thus you have a false cycle.

I'm glad that you found something that you feel is working for you, but I still go back to the old adage.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.