Magnesium dosing recipe

[DonW]

Boomer,
Can you steer me in the right direction to make instructions for my Mg suppliment. Its a blend of sulfate and chloride that Ive been using for year or so. It seems to have about double the potency of magflake, so the calculator is way off. My theory was to just make a gallon jug of SW and test the mg and add a tsp and retest and do the math. Will this be ok for general instructions or is there somthing I'm leaving out?

Thanks
Don

 

[Meche]

That makes sense to me. Unless the relationship is not liner. It could be non-liner if; as the concentration of Mg increases, some is converted into something else that will not show up on a Mg test.

Just a thought.

 

[LakeEd]

Don,

I'm not positive reading your post, if you are needing the Mix for the DIY Mag, or dosing instructions???

Mix: 3 Cups Magnesium Sulfate, 5 Cups Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate... disolved in 1 gallon RO/DI.

Dosing: IF using parts A & B (Calc & Alk), after 1 gallon usage of those, you add 2 1/2 cups Mag suppliment.

At least, that is the formula that I have bookmarked here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

 

[DonW]

Don,

I'm not positive reading your post, if you are needing the Mix for the DIY Mag, or dosing instructions???

Mix: 3 Cups Magnesium Sulfate, 5 Cups Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate... disolved in 1 gallon RO/DI.

Dosing: IF using parts A & B (Calc & Alk), after 1 gallon usage of those, you add 2 1/2 cups Mag suppliment.

At least, that is the formula that I have bookmarked here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

No I'm not making mag suppliment its already made. I need a dosing recipe.
Example: X tsp of mg suppliment raises mg by X in X gallons of aquarium water.

Don

 

[LakeEd]

Unfortunately, that I don't have for you. I do know that when I do my water-change (35 gallons weekly), I need to raise my Mag from 1100 to 1300 (on average, for my I.O. Salt), and I use (dry) 9 oz of my mixture to raise that 35 gallons 200ppt.

As you can tell, I don't exactly follow Randy's direction about mixing in a gallon of water, but I do follow the 3cups-5cups mixture.

I know... NOT the help you want... but hey, got some attention to your post until Boomer shows up.

 

[DonW]

Unfortunately, that I don't have for you. I do know that when I do my water-change (35 gallons weekly), I need to raise my Mag from 1100 to 1300 (on average, for my I.O. Salt), and I use (dry) 9 oz of my mixture to raise that 35 gallons 200ppt.

As you can tell, I don't exactly follow Randy's direction about mixing in a gallon of water, but I do follow the 3cups-5cups mixture.

I know... NOT the help you want... but hey, got some attention to your post until Boomer shows up.

This stuff takes 3 spoons disolved in rodi water to raise my 40g from 1100 to 1300.

Don

 

[Meche]

Did you ever get this figured out Don?

 

[Boomer]

Here yah go Donny no math requried. I'm surprised you have never seen this. It has been posted a gazillon times


Reef Chemistry Calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

But a short lesson as to the how.

Example

Epsom is MgSO4 if anydrous, no water. There is also a hydrated form MgSO4·7H2O

The MW is found on any Periodc Table of an Eleent

Anydrous MgSO4
The MW of Mg++ = 24.3 grams
The MW of S = 32
The MW of O = 16, so 16 x 4 = 64

24.3 + 32 + 64 = 120.3 grams

So 120.3 grams of MgSO4 in 1 liter (actually 879.7 grams of water and 120.3 grms of Epsom) will be 20 % or 24.3 grams or 24300 mg/l. Mg++. MgCl (Anydrous) is 24.3 mg++ + 35.45 = 58.75 grams of MgCl will give 24.23 grams of Mg++. For hydrated forms one needs to add in the MW of all the water. The more the water the more you will need.

You can go from there, such as doing it for 1 gram of MgSO4 or MgCl. The calcuator is much eaiser. And Don it takes allot by weight to raise mg++

 

[DonW]

Here yah go Donny no math requried. I'm surprised you have never seen this. It has been posted a gazillon times


Reef Chemistry Calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

But a short lesson as to the how.

Example

Epsom is MgSO4 if anydrous, no water. There is also a hydrated form MgSO4·7H2O

The MW is found on any Periodc Table of an Eleent

Anydrous MgSO4
The MW of Mg++ = 24.3 grams
The MW of S = 32
The MW of O = 16, so 16 x 4 = 64

24.3 + 32 + 64 = 120.3 grams

So 120.3 grams of MgSO4 in 1 liter (actually 879.7 grams of water and 120.3 grms of Epsom) will be 20 % or 24.3 grams or 24300 mg/l. Mg++. MgCl (Anydrous) is 24.3 mg++ + 35.45 = 58.75 grams of MgCl will give 24.23 grams of Mg++. For hydrated forms one needs to add in the MW of all the water. The more the water the more you will need.

You can go from there, such as doing it for 1 gram of MgSO4 or MgCl. The calcuator is much eaiser. And Don it takes allot by weight to raise mg++

The calculator dosent work with this stuff. If you use the calculator you end up with way to much mg. But I did get it worked out the hard way, by just doing it. It not epsom or mag flake it both

Don

 

[Boomer]

Don what are these suff exactly. Hydrated will require much more than Anydrous. They both sound like Anydrous.

There are 2 forms of Magnesium Sulfate and 4 of MgCl

20.3 g/mol, anhydrous
159 gr/ mol, heptahydrate



110.99 g/mol, anhydrous
147.02 g/mol, dihydrate
182.04 g/mol, tetrahydrate
219.08 g/mol, hexahydrate

 

[DonW]

Don what are these suff exactly. Hydrated will require much more than Anydrous. They both sound like Anydrous.

There are 2 forms of Magnesium Sulfate and 4 of MgCl

20.3 g/mol, anhydrous
159 gr/ mol, heptahydrate



110.99 g/mol, anhydrous
147.02 g/mol, dihydrate
182.04 g/mol, tetrahydrate
219.08 g/mol, hexahydrate

Its pure nigari from sea water.

Don

 

[Boomer]

Ok you are using this or a similar brand

http://www.soymilkquick.com/nigari.html

On can not guess as to a formula without knowing more about it. Such as which of the MgCl and MgSO4 and in what proportions. So, your way is the best way.

 

[LakeEd]

Ok you are using this or a similar brand

http://www.soymilkquick.com/nigari.html

On can not guess as to a formula without knowing more about it. Such as which of the MgCl and MgSO4 and in what proportions. So, your way is the best way.

Boomer,

I've been following this thread some here, and from your last response, I'm unable to tell if you like the idea of using Nigari, or don't??? Mind further comment on its usage???

 

[Boomer]

I see no issue with it and equal to food grade, which is a good thing. It is a manufactured salt, so to speak. The only issue is not knowing how much to add and how much of the the two components there are. However, with that said, just look at all the other sup 's one adds and does know what they really are, other than a guess.

I did do some searching on it for Don, to see what I could find or if I had any issues with it. What one has to be sure of its that it is refined nigari and not unrefined nigari and one also does not want to confuse it with tofu, sometimes called nigari, which is often Calcium Sulfate, Gypsum

 

[DonW]

I see no issue with it and equal to food grade, which is a good thing. It is a manufactured salt, so to speak. The only issue is not knowing how much to add and how much of the the two components there are. However, with that said, just look at all the other sup 's one adds and does know what they really are, other than a guess.

I did do some searching on it for Don, to see what I could find or if I had any issues with it. What one has to be sure of its that it is refined nigari and not unrefined nigari and one also does not want to confuse it with tofu, sometimes called nigari, which is often Calcium Sulfate, Gypsum

Its refined Ive been getting it buk for a year or so now. It was the advice of a japanese reefkeeper a few years ago. The stuff is pretty good and approved by the feds food grade for what ever thats worth. I havent had it test for howmuch sulfate vs chloride is in it. I'll get around to it eventually.

Don

 

[LakeEd]

I am intrigued that this is derived from Natural Sea Water... with the H2O & Sodium removed, which is leaving the magnesium (and possiblly small amounts of other trace elements???).

So, Don... you basically just had to do some "trial & error" with dosing this, until you found the amount that works for you?

 

[DonW]

I am intrigued that this is derived from Natural Sea Water... with the H2O & Sodium removed, which is leaving the magnesium (and possiblly small amounts of other trace elements???).

So, Don... you basically just had to do some "trial & error" with dosing this, until you found the amount that works for you?

Yes, Just took a little testing before a water change. It works our to about 1/2 of the quantitiy used if you were using magflake. The japanese have been dosing it for a long time.

Don

 

[scytale]

Don,

Are you using straight nigari or a blend of nigari + epsom salts?
(like a hybrid version of Randy's recipe #3, below)

If so, it would be great if someone on RF had the wherewithall to update the mg portion of the online calculator to include nigari.....



"2. Using MAG flake only, dissolve 8 cups magnesium chloride hexahydrate in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is adequate, but not quite as balanced as #3 below. This choice is not a good way to go if calcium is supplemented by calcium chloride, because together they will force chloride excessively high.

3. Using both Epsom salts and MAG flake, dissolve 7¼ cups MAG flake and ¾ cup Epsom salts in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is preferred, but its advantage over recipe #2 is minimal in most cases.

Note that combining the two materials in solution can result in some precipitation of calcium sulfate (calcium and sulfate are impurities in the MAG flake and the Epsom salts, respectively. To assure yourself that the two materials have fully dissolved, dissolve each separately in some freshwater before combining them. Some calcium sulfate precipitation is acceptable, and it is okay to let the solids get into the aquarium, assuming you can dose in a way that prevents them from landing on delicate organisms.

Note also that this recipe (#3) is different from that given in my DIY two-part recipe, because in that case more magnesium sulfate is necessary to offset the rise in chloride that is provided by both the calcium chloride and the magnesium chloride."

 

[DonW]

Don,

Are you using straight nigari or a blend of nigari + epsom salts?
(like a hybrid version of Randy's recipe #3, below)

If so, it would be great if someone on RF had the wherewithall to update the mg portion of the online calculator to include nigari.....



"2. Using MAG flake only, dissolve 8 cups magnesium chloride hexahydrate in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is adequate, but not quite as balanced as #3 below. This choice is not a good way to go if calcium is supplemented by calcium chloride, because together they will force chloride excessively high.

3. Using both Epsom salts and MAG flake, dissolve 7¼ cups MAG flake and ¾ cup Epsom salts in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is preferred, but its advantage over recipe #2 is minimal in most cases.

Note that combining the two materials in solution can result in some precipitation of calcium sulfate (calcium and sulfate are impurities in the MAG flake and the Epsom salts, respectively. To assure yourself that the two materials have fully dissolved, dissolve each separately in some freshwater before combining them. Some calcium sulfate precipitation is acceptable, and it is okay to let the solids get into the aquarium, assuming you can dose in a way that prevents them from landing on delicate organisms.

Note also that this recipe (#3) is different from that given in my DIY two-part recipe, because in that case more magnesium sulfate is necessary to offset the rise in chloride that is provided by both the calcium chloride and the magnesium chloride."

Nigari is a blend of both that comes from the ocean, so you dont mix it with anything.

Don

 

[scytale]

Nigari is a blend of both that comes from the ocean, so you dont mix it with anything.

Don

Great!

(Has anyone spotted it in any Asian Markets on the Eastside?)