Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

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Herefishy: Yes I thought that pics and such would be helpful for beginners who have not worked much with plastics before. And I have not heard of this scrubber you mention, unless you're describing it differently. Were these turfs exposed to air? My reading of turf usage in aquariums went back to the 70's. When were these things used?

Used back in the 70s and early 80s. They were like a slow waterfall along a glass or acrylic sheet with florescent lighting over the sheet. Algae would grow on the glass and get scraped off periodically. Not as efficient as your turf style and even as good as a refugium which is my current nutrient export of choice besides skimmers
 
fishy: Ahh it does seem to be the same.

loohunter: Turf is different from a fuge in so many ways:

o Reduces N and P to much lower levels than fuge/macro can.

o Is very quick to respond to excess nitrate and phosphate spikes (the turf "screen" always
stays the same size after it is trimmed); much quicker than refugiums/macros which have
smaller surface areas after they are trimmed.

o Traps no waste/food like a refugium or DSB does; waste/food flows right past the screen.

o Does not release strands into display, like chaeto.

o Does not go sexual, like caulerpa can.

o Is 1/2 or 1/3 the size.

o Weighs nothing.

o Cools the water.

o Much easier to clean/harvest.

o Can be hung above tank so pods drain into tank.

o Is free.

o Is portable.

o Can run two, for backup.

o Will oxygenate the tank if main return pump goes out.
 
Technically, there are two different things: Seeding, and pre-growing. Seeding is just that... rubbing seeds (spores) of algae into a new screen so it can start off faster. But most folks use the term to mean pre-grown, as in the turf is already fully grown on a screen, and the whole screen is sent to you. Of note is the fact that you can't really "seed" real red/brown turf, because it takes months to develop, and if you really did rub spores of real red/brown turf into a new screen, they would just die. Seeding spores is done with just regular green algae, since a new screen can only start by growing green algae anyway. This is good news, since it means you can seed your own screen with algae from your tank. You can't "pre grow" your own, however.

You do not "have" to seed a screen, but since you can do it easily with your own green algae, you might as well. Use sandpaper to rough up the surface, and rub the green algae in HARD with your fingers. That's it. you won't see the spores, and you'll swear they all
washed off, but they're there. First visible green growth will be in two days. And it will start pulling nutrients in a week. The real red/green stiff astroturf like turf will take months, though.

Pre-grown screens save you these months. When they arrive, you put them in the light and flow, and they start working immediately, and are much much higher power than the green stuff.
 
thanks for the info, i am considering doing somthing like this. there is another guy on the forum that has a trough. i forgot his screen name but he is from new york and the tank has been up and running for over 35 years
 
Yes that's him, he posted on my technical turf post on RC. However I'm not sure he's grown real red/brown turf because he doesn't do a weekly scrubbing of it, plus it does not have a light of its own... just uses the tank light. So he probably has mostly green hair/slime, which does pull nutrients about the same as fuge macros. Thus the reason for the large size (but hey, it's also super easy). Now if he scrubbed (not scraped) weekly the green stuff away, and used strong light, he'd get real red/brown turf, and would need only two feet long instead of six.
 
Here's an interesting one that someone just built... said it took him just a few minutes:


UserMinzukOnUR.jpg
 
removing skimmer will lead to an increase in DOC's. algae do not remove DOC's, only contribute to them. whole long discussion on this and other drawbacks at rc if you are interested i suggest you read through that.

TROOF!


santa monica, while your filter im sure works for you, IMO it is absolutely silly and irresponsible to say:
"It will replace (or keep you from needing) a skimmer, refugium, phosphate removers, nitrate removers, carbon, filtersocks, and possibly even waterchanges." that is utter drivel. and it doesnt really prove anything to post one pic of a tank of predominantly live rock and soft/lps corals.(and jeez...a blue, purple, and clown tang in 100g???:(:() is there any sps in that tank? how long have you kept a blue tort actually blue in a tank with that singularly as the filtration? any long term testing or several years of proven success you can show us?? i would say that these would be some of many important factors not included in such a blanket statement as what you made. not that i dont belive what you are saying, nor do i need for you to prove anything to me personally, i just find it offensive anytime anyone wants to come along and poo-poo tried and true methodology in favor of some garage rigged $20 wonder bucket. i mean, it's the noobs im thinking of here. i would hate for them to take to heart any info like this without doing research themselves, thinking they can have some awesome reef with a bucket for a filter, as opposed to learning in depth methodology, designing a well rounded modular filtration system drawing upon multiple disciplines, making serious purchases of some fair expense, because nothing truely good comes for free.
now dont get me wrong, i 'd love to build one of your buckets and ADD it to my system...:idea:
but replace it??? no f'ing way man
 
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Well I thought I had posted this a few times already, but it was probably on another board: I only do softy and LPS, as do most beginners. The main goal of the post is to help folks who have a tank full of algae that they can't get rid of, which is every beginner at some point, and was me for two years. But others report no problem with SPS (such as Morgan at IA) using only turf. For more complex needs, such as apparently your own, the technical post on RC goes in depth about it.
 
Part 1 of 2


Ok here are the results of the 5 gal nano test. First, here is the tank, which has 3 pounds LR, a SSB, along with a purple lobster, a starfish, and a clown:

5galNano.jpg



The tank has been on an office worker's desk (his first tank), with no water changes for about four months. The last change was done only to get nitrate down (a result of overfeeding of course), in order to keep the animals happy. Phosphate was not a concern since there were no corals, and thus there was no phosphate removal system in place.

As you can see, the light and most of the hood were removed, as was the little sponge filter. The remaining part of the hood has a compartment for the sponge filter, which is 2 X 3 inches, and it has a little built in pump to move water across this compartment. I started out by taking some tank-divider material and cutting it to a tight fit into the compartment:

5galNanoDay00screen.jpg



Then I sanded it very rough on the top, and I "seeded" it by taking some green hair algea and rubbing the algae HARD into the sanded side. Then I pushed the screen into the sponge filter compartment:

5galNanoCompartment.jpg



The screen is only 6 square inches, single sided, and thus not enough for this tank according to the rule of thumb of one square inch per gallon (double sided), or two square inches per gallon (single sided). Thus for this 5 gal tank single-sided I should have 10 square inches instead of 6, but of course for simplicity I just used the compartment size.

Since we had already removed the original tank light, we were going to just use the light for the screen as the new tank light too. So I just took one of the same bulbs that I used in the bucket, a 23 Watt, 5100K compact fluorescents "full-spectrum" (125W output equivalent):

Light.jpg

http://www.buylighting.com/23-Watt-R40-Compact-Fluorescent-Flood-5100K-p/tcp1r4023-51k.htm


...and set it directly on the plastic hood, which put it only a half inch from the flowing water:

5galNanoLight.jpg



Thankfully these CFL's run very cool, and you can put your hand right on them without burning. Of course if you try this light placement yourself, you'd want to test it carefully so that you don't melt anything, and won't knock the bulb over. I thought that the light might heat up the water, but it does not seem to. The light is on an 18-hour-on timer, and provides the tank itself with much more light than the original hood light did.



Results: Here are the measurements (Salifert) and pics taken over a period of days:


....................N...........P
.
day 0..........*............*...............not measured
day 1........(50)........( .5 )
day 2..........*............*...............not measured
day 3..........*............*...............not measured
day 4..........*............*...............not measured
day 5........(50)........( .5 )
day 6........(25)........( .25 )
day 7........(15)........( .13 ).........screen full
day 8........(15)........(1.0)...........screen full
day 9........(10)........(1.0)...........whole screen cleaned (mistake)
day 10......(10)........(1.0)...........growing back
day 11......(8)..........(1.0)...........growing back more
day 12......(8)..........(1.0)...........half cleaned
day 13......(8)..........( .5 )
day 14......(5)..........( .25 ).........other half cleaned
day 15......(8)..........( .13 )
day 16......(3)..........( .13 ).........other half cleaned; housing cleaned
day 17......( 2.5 ).....( .05 )
day 18......( .5 ).......( .05 )
day 19......( .2 ).......( .05 ).........other half cleaned (not much there)
day 20......(0)..........( .015 ).......green growing back over brown



Day 2:
5galNanoDay02screenSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay02screen.jpg

Day 3:
5galNanoDay03screenSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay03screen.jpg

Day 7:
5galNanoDay07screenSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay07screen.jpg

Continued....
 
Part 2 of 2


Day 9, before complete cleaning:
5galNanoDay09screenBeforeScrapeSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay09screenBeforeScrapeDay.jpg

Day 9, After complete cleaning (mistake)
5galNanoDay09screenAfterScrapeSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay09screenAfterScrape.jpg

Day 12, half cleaned:
5galNanoDay12halfScrapeSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay12halfScrape.jpg

Day 16:
5galNanoDay16screenSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay16screen.jpg

Day 17:
5galNanoDay17screenSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay17screen.jpg

Day 18:
5galNanoDay18screenSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay18screen.jpg

Day 19, in tank:
5galNanoDay19screenInSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay19screenIn.jpg

Day 19, removed:
5galNanoDay19screenOutBeforeSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay19screenOutBefore.jpg

Day 19, after cleaning top half:
5galNanoDay19screenOutAfterSmall.jpg

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/5galNanoDay19screenOutAfter.jpg


You'll see on day 7 that the screen filled up. However I had never seen it full before, so I did not know what "full" looked like. So I left it to see how full it would get. Day 8 the screen looked the same, but there was a big increase in P, and I surmised that the screen had filled up and some strands of algae were shadowing others, causing the others to detach and flow into the tank and die (not enough light in the tank to survive). So I waited one more day to be sure (day 9), and sure enough the P was still very high.

So on Day 9 I cleaned (mistakenly) the whole screen, whereas I should have only cleaned half. Thus, I had no filtering, and it took a few day to fill in again. By day 14, nitrate and phosphate were at reasonable levels, and I was doing half-screen cleanings properly. By day 18 the nitrate and phosphate were bottoming out and staying constant, and nitrate eventually got to zero at day 20.


So the things learned:

1) A small screen size, even one sided, can do a tremendous job of filtering. (Phosphate from .5 to .015, and Nitrate from 50 to 0, in three weeks).

2) It can do this filtering with a constant flow of water (no pulsing), although a timer on the little pump would be easy to add and try out.

3) It can do this filtering with regular green algae; it has not had time to form true red/brown turf, although it was starting to feel like some was growing.

4) It all can be done in the nano's hood, with a standard light, for free.


Ok, now it's seriously time for you nano folks to try this!
 
algae/turf scrubber

This was pretty big for about a year or two in the nineties, fair amount 'o' maintenance to keep it running right, right? :eek:
 
Turf filters were catching on up to around year 2000, but it was patented, and the owner of the patent shut down anyone who tried to sell them, and even he did not try to sell them, so they were/are impossible to find. That means that he looked at all the different macros available, and chose the most effective one to patent his design on. But the algae itself, and my bucket or nano version, is just a cleaning once a week. Cleaned the nano today in two minutes. Also the P hit zero today in the nano, after feeding a half cube of mysis yesterday. The green algae on the screen was taking off. But there is nothing to break, just the weekly scrub of the screen.
 
again... very very nice.... will be doing this this comming weekend as I bought a big chiller so the temp will be perfectly controlled i think this is the next step towards making my tank a sps paradice... have a diy 8" skimmer on the burner too...will post some pics and results!!! again thanks for your write up!!!
 
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