Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[burning2nd]

always wanted to know what that stuff growing on the outlet of my skimmer.... i got turf now... woot!


too much work for me.... my hands stay dry....

i didnt mean mechanical, i ment nutrient export

 

[tike]

Haven't had a chance to read all the way thru but it sounds interesting! I just might have to experiment with this one................

 

[SantaMonica]

tike666, do post some pics if you do!

 

[SantaMonica]

Here's another cool screen just built by someone, designed to be over the sump and drain down into it. He says after he adjusted adjusted the flow, there was no spraying or splattering, just a quiet flow down the screen:

 

[JoshF]

I'd have to agree with Skimmerwhisperer that I wouldn't want this as the only filtration on a tank. I can say this with some experience as I actually ran a turf scrubber on my skimmerless 55g aquarium. It worked just fine, but the addition of a protein skimmer adds a lot more "wiggle room" if something dies or a "helpful" friend feeds the aquarium.

It does look like an easy DIY, though that design would cause a LOT of the really fine salt mist that you don't see in the short term but causes a lot of fine salt deposit on everything around it. It fits nicely into a typical sump, though. My MMFI turf scrubber sits on top of a sump, which is kind of a pain. It also required a LOT of flow to work really well. I used a Mag 12, if memory serves.

If anyone wants to play around with one of these, I'd trade mine for a couple of Korallia 3 or 4's (or make an offer!.) Since my daughter was born I haven't had a display tank set-up and am SLOWLY starting to get equipment together for a bare-bones soft-coral propagation tank without a sump.

Josh

 

[SantaMonica]

Josh I understand what you are saying about a skimmer backup of sorts, after all I keep mine on the shelf nearby for that reason. But just so you will know, turf has a massive appetite for ammonia, which is what you are trying to eliminate from your dead fish or overfeeding example. A skimmer, however, does not touch ammonia. Yes it will pull out the food, but the stuff it misses (and the fish) will be ammonia that hopefully the rocks and DSB can handle.

You might be right about the fine salt mist of the above-sump picture. Will depend on the flow, of course. But the ease of construction and placement can't be beat.

 

[SantaMonica]

Part 1 of 2:



Week 1 Screen Growth

Here's some results for the turf bucket that was built for the main (not nano) build thread. Below are the pics of the screen, day by day, for the first seven days. I had sanded both sides of the screen, and then "seeded" the screen by rubbing green algae HARD into it. After water flowed over it, only a couple visible specs remained (the rest are invisible spores) that grew a little by the Day 2 pic. It should be noted that this new bucket is working side-by-side on the same tank that my original test bucket is on:

This means that the new screen is sharing nutrients and competing directly against my established screen that I got pre-grown from IA over a month ago. Also, N and P were already zero, so nutrients were hard to come by. So this new screen had little to grow on, unlike the nano. Nevertheless, these pics show the growth progress you MIGHT expect if you decide to grow your own screen from scratch:


Day 2; the specs from seeding are visible:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay2.jpg

Day 3:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay3.jpg

Day 4; Brown diatoms have coated the screen:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay4.jpg

Day 5: Green hair algae specs are starting to lengthen:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay5.jpg

Day 6:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay6.jpg

Day 7: Some green hair is over two inches long:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay7.jpg

Day 7 Closeup; Some brown spots are lengthening, and some green hair is flowing past the bottom; And although it's hard to see, most of the holes are still open:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay7closeup.jpg

 

[SantaMonica]

Part 2 of 2:


Day 8:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay8.jpg

Day 9; Some brown spots are getting thick, and some green areas are starting to cover up other areas. Almost all holes are grown over; time to clean!

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay9.jpg

Day 9 Screen Removed; Note the light colored spots on the bottom half. These are probably copepods eating the algae, since I did not clean and freshwater-rinse in over a week:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay9out.jpg

Day 9 Closeup of Spots:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay9spots.jpg

Day 9 Removing the green algae by hand first (used toothbruth second):

Day 9 Harvest of first week; Remember that this screen is getting what nutrients are leftover from my other screen:

Day 9 After Cleaning; Note I cleaned both sides, which you only do the first cleaning (thereafter you only clean one side at a time):

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay9after.jpg


So that takes us through the first cleaning cycle of a new screen. Was surprised to see the light spots on the screen since I never saw any on my established screen, but then this new screen is so thin right now that any spots become easily visible. You should not go more than a week between cleaning and a freshwater rinse (freshwater will kill the pods) like I just did; I just wanted to get a decent amount of algae to harvest so you would be able to see it.

Interesting that all the spots are on the lower half of the screen, which in my bucket is the part that stays underwater more often, since the bucket fills partially as the pump runs. (It shouldn't do this, but I have not connected a ball valve to the pump yet, so I can't slow it down). So apparently, the copepods can't survive well when the water flows away, leaving just air. This is a good reason to not submerge your screen, and also to consider having a timer on the pump to let the screen dry out for 30 or 60 seconds between "waves".

On the cleaning, note that I took off all the green, but left the brown. You always want to do this, in order to prepare the screen for developing real red/brown turf later.

Note on "Day 9 Screen Removed", that there is a bit more coverage on the right than on the left. That's because most of the flow has been going on the right side. But as you can see it does not change the coverage that much.

 

[SantaMonica]

Here's a neat screen that someone just built. Since there was no vertical room in his sump area, he asked about horizontal options and I showed him the commercial floating turf screens. He made one out of floating material:

 

[bbehring]

SantaMonica, spill the beans on how to make the floating screen in the first pick. I have the same issues and this seems like it would work for me? How about it's effectiveness vs the vertical version?

 

[SantaMonica]

I think you could just do it by placing small styrofoam balls under a stiff screen, like maybe one on each corner. You'd want the screen to just barely float, so that it sometimes "goes under" a bit, which will allow more flow over it. You'd also want the water to be turbulent, so you may have to re-direct your overflow, or add a power head. No matter what, you want very strong lighting shining directly on it..

 

[bbehring]

I'm assuming that the algeas will only grow on the one side of the screen facing up towards the light. So when cleaning I'd just clean 1/2 the screen on one side? Also do you think this less potent/effective version would be as effective as having cheato in the fuge?

 

[SantaMonica]

Yes it will only grow on the top (which, by the way, means you needs twice the area). So just clean 1/2 the screen at a time, as needed, or once a week at the longest. Compared to chaeto, it will be more effective even without true turf developing, provided you use 2 sq in. screen per gallon, and you use a very strong light almost touching the screen. If you get true stiff red/brown turf after a few month (not sure it will grow there though), it will out-filter everything else combined.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Looking more and more like a fun refugium yet with less vegetation growth (nutrient export.)

Many of my friend's throw away a pound or two of calurpa and Chaeto out of their refugium every other week.

I toss out more mass of algae (mexicana) from my 72 bow with very few fish.

Fascinating experiment never-the less, keep up the great work!

 

[bbehring]

provided you use 2 sq in. screen per gallon

This would mean for 52 gal of system water, I'd need a screen around 18"x24"? I only have 1/2 this area available. Maybe this won't work?:shock:

 

[Herefishyfishy]

provided you use 2 sq in. screen per gallon QUOTE]

This would mean for 52 gal of system water, I'd need a screen around 18"x24"? I only have 1/2 this area available. Maybe this won't work?:shock:

18 x 24 = 432 which would equate to a 216 gal tank

If you have a 52 would equate to 104 Sq In or roughly 10" x 10.5"

 

[bbehring]

18 x 24 = 432 which would equate to a 216 gal tank

If you have a 52 would equate to 104 Sq In or roughly 10" x 10.5"

Yes, but I think SM said I need 2 x that, with only one side being lit/active, no?

 

[SantaMonica]

Yes, for one sided, you need twice the area (2 instead of 1). Half the proper size will indeed still work, but you'll fill up twice as fast (as my test nano did), and have to clean every few day instead of a week.

 

[bbehring]

Sm, I know you prolly already noted what type of screen and where to buy from in your earlier postings, but could you please indicate again?

 

[SantaMonica]

If you are going to grow the screen yourself, just get any stiff material that has holes in it, like knitting backing, gutter guard, or tank-divider. Try going to hardware stores, craft stores, garden stores, sewing stores, or just get one of these online:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/2/Tank-Dividers/tank%20divider/0


If you want one of the pre-grown ones, the only current place to buy one is Inland Aquatics (in the U.S.) and get a turf screen overnighted to you. They charge $10 for 16 square inches (4 X 4), so just tell him how many square inches you need. Then you'll need to pay for overnight delivery to your location. Already have your screen operating, though, so you can throw the screen right in; it will need lights and flow immediately upon arrival.