Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

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Here the first pre-grown installation I've seen (except for mine)... jski711 on another board said: "I can't believe how well this DIY thing worked. It literally took all of 45 minutes once I had the materials. And I have noticed my pH raise up about .15 in a few hours since installing it."

UserJski711onRS-all.jpg
 
i was thinking about zip tie'in the screen to the pvc with mine but then i would have to cut it and use new zipties every time...
do you think i could use some thin acrillic sheets to grow the turf, double sidded, if i scuff the crap out of it? i have some laying around....8"x12"...
 
freeta: If you tie-wrapped it, you want to have a quick-disconnect on the pvc somewhere; maybe the horizontal waterfall pipe could just be a friction fit onto the vertical pipe. As for using acrylic sheet, yes it would work for growing green hair (which is at least a powerful as caulerpa), but would not be able to grow true red/brown turf because there needs to be a place for it to grab onto and remain when you scrape it. But since you have have it, try it! Just remember, use the most powerful lights you can tolerate/fit/afford.

daytona: Yes, that's the idea. And the algae that grows on the screen will not "spread" to the tank, either. You already have spores of algae in your tank right now as you read this, including green hair, green slime, and red/brown turf algae. But without enough light (and in the case of turf, flow and air), they will not grow. Algae grows first where it has the most light. You can test this right now by getting a strong light and aiming it at one corner of your tank, at the top where the waterline is. You will start developing green algae there in one day, but it won't cause "more" of the algae to spread to the rest of your tank.

That's the first part of how a screen works: It's just more light, out of the tank. The second part of a screen's operation is the turbulent flow across the screen; this brings many more nutrients in contact with the screen than just regular tank flow does. Lastly, if you are doing a vertical screen with a pump, and you put a wavemaker timer on the pump (on, off, on, off), then the "off" time will simulate the time between real waves in the ocean, which breaks up the "boundary layer" around the algae. This boundary layer slows down the passage of nutrients from the water to the algae. This last step (pulsing the water) is very important if you are going to want the true stiff red/brown turf algae, since real turf lives out-of-the-water (on rocks, pylons, etc).
 
You need 1 square inch of screen for each gallon, if double sided. If single sided, you need twice the area. Then, go look at the first part of this thread... there is a chart that shows how much flow you need for that screen size.
 
today i bought two 150 watt clamp on type reflectors and sockets, and some ginormis compact spirial lights to go on them. they are rated @ 150 wats each. so tomorrom i go to lowes for the pvc house barb attachment and two pumps (need a new return also), i already have some one inch pvc laying around. i'm also getting the pipe and carbon for a diy media reactor... this should be fun. total project cost...
lights...2@ $8 ea.
reflectors...2@ $6 ea.
300 to 500 gph pump... $19.99
going to bed knowing your no3 and po4 free...
priceless...
 
Go freeta! Don't forget a valve too. Since cooling is important in your case too, also consider a fan; it will greatly reduce the time your new chiller runs. Most important... pics and N and P readings each day :)

I don't believe you have a skimmer running yet, so this will be a good opportunity to see how the screen works by itself.
 
Here is the first screen builder ("varga" from another thread) to reach the cleaning stage:

UserVargaOnRS-Days0-9.jpg



Some comments from him along the way:

"Mine has very little growth on it, its been 4 days......more light?" (Which he then did)

"The light now is right on the screen, almost touching it"

"I'll have to reach in my tank to take out HA [for seeding] which is not easy! (Which he then did)

"We've now had a burst of growth in the last 24 hours; Here it is on day 6."

"We had another major burst of growth in the last 24 hours! its a redish/brownish stuff, Im guessing this is turf?" (No, it was brown diatoms)

"This thing is a great chiller!! forgot to turn the fan off last night, woke up to a 73 degree tank!"
 
Go freeta! Don't forget a valve too. Since cooling is important in your case too, also consider a fan; it will greatly reduce the time your new chiller runs. Most important... pics and N and P readings each day :)

I don't believe you have a skimmer running yet, so this will be a good opportunity to see how the screen works by itself.

so i collected all the stuff this weekend and put it together tonight after work... (had to cut a slit in pvc with my die grinder at work).
;)
ok no3 is @ 160:eek::eek::eek:
and po4 is .25 day one!!!
 
oh.. sorry thats not a ats... thats my cousin washin the algae off that dirty seattle sign...:lol::lol::lol:

ok here we go...
 
the black abs is a diy carbon reactor (upflow). so the waterflow goes sump, pumped into the chiller, then to the carbon reactor, then the ats, back to the sump.
the more i think about it i want to have my two overflow lines feed the ats. they are the white 1" spaflex hoses on the right side of the pictures.

i know it's kinda a eyesore, but, i welded my stand at work and painted it black. then a piece of half inch plywood and some styro sit on top of it, then the tank. I have a piece of purple velvet that is tacked to the plywood and hangs to the floor, so all you see is my black hood, my tank, a little bit of black iron stand and a plush purple drape. i like it...

and here is one of my chiller cause he's jealous he's not the newest piece of equipment now...
 
All right freeta, you are off and runnin' now. 160 N ! Surprised that you glass hasn't melted :)

Couple things: Get more flow; you only have a small amount on the screen and you need more. Get the lights right up to the screen, 1/2" away. What power are they? Also, how about you remove the carbon reactor? It's reducing flow, and will be trapping the food you want to be circulating. Lastly, did you seed the screen with green hair or diatoms?

If you can't get enough flow, they maybe you should use the the overflows.

Will be exciting to watch the N, P, and pics each day.
 
Since no one else has mentioned it... Caulerpas and Chaetos both have significantly more water stored in their tissues as a percentage of overall mass or volume. Turf algaes are relatively "dry" meaning that what you throw away is essentially more concentrated. So, you can't make a one-to-one comparison in terms of "how much is getting tossed in the garbage." If memory serves, chaeto has less water stored in it that caulerpa, and turfs have WAY less than both.

The nice thing about this is that you can add it easily to an existing system. It's like Anthony Calfo's DSB in a bucket; it's cheap, easy to add, and if it doesn't work for you, then you're not out much money!

Josh

Looking more and more like a fun refugium yet with less vegetation growth (nutrient export.)

Many of my friend's throw away a pound or two of calurpa and Chaeto out of their refugium every other week.

I toss out more mass of algae (mexicana) from my 72 bow with very few fish.

Fascinating experiment never-the less, keep up the great work!
 
Yes Josh you have it right... turf (real turf that is red/brown and stiff like carpet) is dense with almost no water, and that is why it stores so much N and P is a small space. I've said before that a sheet of real turf can take a high-N-and-P tank to zero, and you won't even notice the extra growth. But of course the small size is an advantage.

Easy-to-try is very true, especially the new floating-in-sump idea.
 
In a classic case of "not doing research", some anti-turf folks on another site have ended up helping out the turf scene. They are constantly accusing pro-turf or pro-algae folks, and especially anti-skimmer folks, of not having research. So they post a research video from the College of Marine Science (U of S. FL, St. Petersburg) on that site, which is supposed to prove with research that algae, especially turf, kills corals. Yes. Then they
follow it up with "So I guess you didn't watch the video, right?"

Well. I took the time to watch it (one hour). But, I guess they did NOT. The video starts out appearing to make the point of "algae kills corals", and if you stopped watching after fifteen minutes, that's what you'd think. But the first part of that presentation is just a setup for the presenter's further explanations, and is not the point itself.

It's a similar situation to a presentation for beginners about how rock, sand, and the nitrogen cycle works: You would start by saying "If I have a fish in a bucket of water, and I pour in ammonia, the fish will die." This is true, but it's only used to set up later explanations of how rock and sand come into the picture to stop the death of the fish.

So it turns out that if you watch the whole research video, the presenter/researcher not only makes the point of pro-algae folks, and counters the point of the people who posted it (as their evidence), but it also counters the entire group of people who say no-skimmers and high-DOC's are bad. I've been saying that my focus never was skimmer or no-skimmer; instead my focus was reducing N and P cheaply, quickly, and with no risk. But since these people made this video/research available, I'll use it:

The presenter is trying to show how "algae that kills coral" would SEEM to occur, so later he can show you what they really found in their research. The crux of his presentation is basically: "We thought higher DOC's were the cause of coral death; We were wrong. Lower DOC's are" (these are my words).

So here is the video, with rough quotes of what the video says, along with the minutes and seconds into the video where you can see it for yourself:

http://www.marine.usf.edu/videos/2007-01-26.wmv

23:30 "Bulk DOC does not correlate with coral decline; higher DOC areas have healthier corals; lower DOC areas have weaker corals. The opposite of what we predicted".

24:40 "The DOC to DIN ratio's are higher on healthy reefs, and lower on less-healthy reefs".

25:45 "Microbial numbers are elevated with a lower DOC to DIN ratio" (!) (even I got that one wrong).

34:00 "Christmas Island, with the really low DOC, has the highest pathogens, while Kingman Island, with the highest DOC, has the lowest pathogens."

37:00 "On Kingman Island you have high hard-coral coverage and the lowest disease [and highest DOC]. That's weird! What you SHOULD find is that as hard-coral coverage reduces, it should be harder for the pathogens to find hosts, so you should see a pathogen decrease. But we're not seeing that, which means there is SOMETHING ELSE going on."

49:20 "The DOC definitely always goes down, in the really bad coral areas".

52:39 "You can actually put the corals where the nutrients are really high, and the corals are not dying; in some cases they tend to grow better, which is also true in our [???].

So I submit to them, using their own evidence, that not using a skimmer, with the resultant increase in DOC's (and now apparent decrease in microbes), is not in-itself a coral killer. Something else is. And this explains why some people using algal-only filtration can grow great sps.
 
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