my first reef system

[reefaddict]

lets try this again, the website is telling me the file is too large. the max is 100 kb? my pic is 532? i know i am doing something wrong. i just don't know what that is.

 

[reefaddict]

pics(maybe)

maybe a pic is attached!

 

[reefaddict]

since it works, i have to put more on now!

 

[Scooterman]

So did you loose any fish or crabs yet?

 

[reefaddict]

losses

I have lost one blue leg hermit. everything else looks healthy and "unstressed". my only problem right now is the phosphate is a little high and i have some hair algae. i will pick up some phosban as soon as i can get to the lfs.

 

[NaH2O]

I think that not adding any fish kills existing bacteria by starving it and extends the cycle.

Actually, live rock is in a constant state of flux, so there will always be something available to feed the bacteria. When a new fish is introduced....the bacteria need a chance to catch up to the new bioload....that is why it is recommended to go slow. The fact that you are registering some nitrites means the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate are not at a sufficient population yet. You will see that come down in a bit.
As for the phosphates, you may want to figure out where they are coming from. Could be the food you are feeding....what and how often are you feeding? As for the algae....all part of it. Yuk - my tank is gross right now, but the hair algae is beginning to look "grey" in areas after adding Rowaphos in a fluidized reactor (I'll have to look at my log, but I believe just over a week now).

I did want to ask if you have any snails? BTW, nice tank!

 

[reefaddict]

i feed a frozen brine shrimp with vitamins added(i am not at home so i am not sure of the brand). it comes in cubes that are about 1 square cm. i feed 1 cube every other day. i feed the corals cyclop-eeze. i feed them about the same amount (1 sq cm) once a week. i add b-ionic to the tank also. 1/3 cup per week. i used to run my vho's 12 hours and the mh's 4. i have cut back to 9 hour vho and 3 hour mh to help the problem. i bought a zebra tang 10 days ago and it is making a big difference. i use ro water only. a couple of days ago i added a maxijet 1200 to help move water where it seems a little still.
i know hair or brown algae is a part of reefing but i would like to make it as small a part as i can!
thanks for the responses, i will post some pics of the fish i am not supposed to have next

 

[reefaddict]

i forgot, i do not have any snails yet.

 

[reefaddict]

the reason i don't have snails yet is my lfs is out of them right now and i seem to time my trips there right before they get some in not after. i will ask them to call me when they arrive.
i live in a decent sized city that has alot of lfs's so i could go anywhere to buy some but, when i was trying to purchase this tank, i went to every store in cincinnati that has saltwater, and i had a terrible time finding helpful, knowlegable people to work with until i found "my" lfs. i will do everything i can within reason not to spend a dime anywhere else because i need the expertise of my lfs alot more than what i would save buying on line or even at the national chains.(stepping off soap box now) :badgrin:

 

[NaH2O]

I see your point about only making purchases from your LFS, however, I don't think you will get a nice variety of snails that way. Online ordering of snails is a great way to get the different types. You can order through some of our sponsors, and you would be supporting the board in the process.

FWIW, you want to see some hair algae....have a look at mine after cycle. The after shot is after some manual removal, just an example of what some people are up against and what can be done without fish. I did this again last Friday night. Patience is hard to come by for me, but I know I have to practice patience.....

 

[reefaddict]

i saw that pic before on your "saga" thread and i was and still am amazed at how much algae you can have just from lr detrious(sp?).

i agree with you about the online ordering. i guess my loyalty to the one store is related to the lack of assistance that i got locally from other stores, something that really isn't a big factor when ordering online.
I definently need snails. i wish i could have taken a picture about two weeks ago, before i put the tang in. it was pretty bad, especially on the substrate.
that tang is amazing. constantly eating, and eating alot. other than the phosphate, the chemistry looks good.

back to cycling, your tank is about 4/5 weeks older than mine. obviously we are doing this differently, i am rushing. you are being cautious. just for arguments sake,long term can there be any ill effects by doing it my way vs. the "correct" way? i realize short term there could be stress on the fish. I will take some pics of my fish tonight. i truthfully can't see any signs of stress on any of threm. the damsels have grown, the flame angel and tang are eating very well. my peppermint shrimp are molting and the hermits look happy. (happy is a scientific term) :lol: all the corals are open and colored well and the zoos and polyps are spreading.
it just seems that the lr allows more flexibilty in early stocking numbers and so far hasn't harmed the fish.

 

[reefaddict]

fish pic

some new pics... i am like a kid at christmas with this new camera! it is almost as fun as the tank !(well almost)

 

[Curtswearing]

There can be an advantage to going slow (if you are patient enough). Nikki is allowing her LR to clean itself out via bacterial turgor. The bacteria are establishing an equilibrium and cleaning the LR at the same time. She doesn't have any corals so she can manipulate lighting to her advantage. Once this initial algae stage is over, she can worry less about problem algaes in the future.

You do want to watch for all inputs of Phosphate to find out if some of them are coming from your food and not your LR. You also want to make sure that you are doing everything possible to maximize exports of Phosphate.

 

[reefaddict]

Curtswearing,
i agree with the inability to manipulate the lighting in a tank with corals but,
what do the bacteria in a sterile tank with lr only have to feed on?
as lr ages and less live organisms exist on and in it, the bacteria have less to feed on as less organic material comes off the rock. less food means less bacteria.(just my opinion not fact)
my theory is, introduce a small bioload before the existing lr bacteria die off and they will feed on wastes produced by new fish, consequently the tank starts with more nitrifying bacteria reducing the ammonia and nitrite spike and the early fish in the tank are not stressed.
i cannot prove this theroy. however my tank has not shown any nh3 and only a trace of no2. phosphates are a different story as i have already mentioned.
i have no doubt that i will be dealing with algae problems longer than nikki will but i am fairly certain my tank will be up to full bio capacity before any tank that has a full 8 week cycle will.
wow posting pictures is a lot more fun than this biology stuff!!

 

[NaH2O]

Great pics reefaddict! Keep them coming!

On the bacteria....again, even with no bioload the bacteria on liverock will feed on each other. Their life span isn't very long, so when a bacterium dies, another bacterium will eat up all the nutrients that the other left behind - this continues on and on. There will be bacteria present. This is just one example, I could go on about sponges and algaes. The bacteria only increase their population as bioload increases. Dump in too many inhabitants at once, and that is a risk a lot of people don't win.....the bacteria have to play catch-up on a large scale and that takes a while. You may not have shown any ammonia, but you are showing nitrites...which means that bacterial group isn't at a large enough population to handle the waste output. Ultimately, it is your reef tank, and you stock it the way you would like. I am just trying to get the information on why to go slow, so new hobbyists can understand the process. We have a responsiblity to our inhabitants.

Now, lets see some more tank shots! How about some equipment?

 

[reefaddict]

i 100% agree about not experimenting with cycling at the expense of the livestock. i have a 55gal and a 20 gal tank set up as a qt in the event the water chemistry goes haywire. i also understand new reefkeepers could be misled by my "theory". i would not recomend that anybody dump large numbers of fish in a new sterile tank. i also think it is wise to add fish slowly in a cured lr tank. i won't bring this up on the public forum anymore. pm's are a different story. :badgrin: i am at work now. i will send some equipment pics when i get home.

 

[Scooterman]

reefaddict, it is hard to tell someone determined to make an instant reef all of the details of what your actually doing, in time your perspective will change, as long as you care for the live stock and don't kill off helpless creatures of nature I guess there isn't any harm done but you must realize that taking your time is pushed for bigger reasons also, not just local to your aquarium but to all people who enjoy our beautiful reefs and how in danger they really are. We want to encourage good practices & prove that what we do from robbing from nature, we do provide good homes & in some cases actually reproduce more for the cause, maybe even help save our existing natural reefs. When you post anywhere, people see that from all walks everywhere. If you want to be a true reefer, pull some books on natural reefs, get to know your roots

 

[reefaddict]

more pics of equipment

 

[NaH2O]

I love the stand and canopy. What kind of flow do you have in the tank?

 

[reefaddict]

flow

the main pump is a custom sealife(#1 i think) it is rated at 540 gph?
i have 1 maxijet 1200 (300 gph) and i have another 1200 ready to go in, i wanted to wait until some more of the hair algae goes away.