Northend Chapter of PSAS?

[user 2204]

+1 on the previous 6 posts. All good points and very good in general.

I for one would be way more than willing to have people over to my place (in South Edmonds) so long as people don't mind dealing with a smaller house but a larger back yard. It would be grand for a spring/summer meeting as I have a nice swing/slide for kids and a large deck with a large barbie.

Cheers,
Alex
(Remember to Vote Northend PSAS BOD in '11)

 

[jrgilles]

I voted 'maybe.' I think after this discussion I change my vote to No. Keep it together, and volunteer or help find spaces up north.

The problem appears not to be that people refuse to travel north, but that no one (with the exception of herefishyfishy) has helped to find a location up north to host the meetings.

So, if there are more places up north, then there will be more meetings up north. This is not a conspiracy to keep things in the south.

Maybe people don't have enough space in their houses. Doesn't have to be in a house. You guys know your northern towns, so find a meeting hall, price it out, and let PSAS know of the location. They don't know the area like you northerners do. So, I guess what I'm saying, is do a bit of leg work for the club and help find convenient places for the northenders.

Instead of complaining about the drive, spend an hour making some calls. Seems like an even trade off. Then we southenders can come up to you.

 

[user 2204]

IMO I say we carry the conversation on with the topic being that of where are viable locations in the Northend for the PSAS to hold meetings. As Mike (Herefishy) mentioned in his post,

My opinion is we don't need to split anything, but either we get more opportunities for friendly gatherings in homes where there are no "rules" of must do and can't do and just a chance to sit back and chat,

So how about a Northend PSAS member or a few start by opeing up there house for meetings? How about (as someone mentioned) run for the BOD?

Just think aboout it this way... Since the early days we the great US Citizens have had the right to vote as well as run for any Government office. Well an organization such as the PSAS is similar in the fact that if you do not like something we have these conversations and from there people should get more involved and maybe even run for the PSAS BOD in the upcoming years. That is how change is made and becomes a reality.

 

[krisfal]

I voted 'maybe.' I think after this discussion I change my vote to No. Keep it together, and volunteer or help find spaces up north.

The problem appears not to be that people refuse to travel north, but that no one (with the exception of herefishyfishy) has helped to find a location up north to host the meetings.

So, if there are more places up north, then there will be more meetings up north. This is not a conspiracy to keep things in the south.

Maybe people don't have enough space in their houses. Doesn't have to be in a house. You guys know your northern towns, so find a meeting hall, price it out, and let PSAS know of the location. They don't know the area like you northerners do. So, I guess what I'm saying, is do a bit of leg work for the club and help find convenient places for the northenders.

Instead of complaining about the drive, spend an hour making some calls. Seems like an even trade off. Then we southenders can come up to you.

You nailed it! As a former BOD member I know in my time there has never been a decision to not have meetings in the north end, rather it was the lack of knowledge of the area, volunteers to open their home (with a few exceptions) or research a location. I tried to organize our beach scavenger hunt at a beach up north and posted asking for help in finding a good place and got zero response, I did not have the time to drive to Edmonds and look at the beach I found on the internet to see if it would work, so as a result it ended up being a beach I knew locally.

The BOD also asked in a similiar thread last year (a thread regarding not enough meetings up north, bashing the BOD for holding the meetings in Kent) for anybody to find the club a Grange hall or some reasonably priced venue up north, nothing. The BOD this year took all the feedback on last years meeting spot and chose not to book the hall this year (I believe this is a fact, sorry if I am wrong). They did all this to try to respond to the members and then it is the same thing year after year, people saying that they do not try, accusing them of selfishly holding the meetings close to their homes, I do not get it. My opinion is volunteer to make it different or just shut up (hey I'm not BOD anymore I do not have to be PC

I for one am thankful for everything the BOD does, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, it cannot be said enough, running the club takes a lot of time and effort, they do not deserve the criticism and accusations (suggestions are good, solutions are even better)

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Awesome discussion by all here in the last many posts. I fully agree that some of us locals in the North-end need to step up to the plate for more than just demands for change. I am a North-end nube, but am learning the area. There are many such as Todd who really know this place. Lets find some more meeting halls and some generous members willing to open their homes. If and when we have a large (or largest) group on the North end requiring a splinter group, then we can worry about it at that time. I might even call Sean O'Donnell's in South Everett to see if or how much they charge to rent out their very busy meeting room downstairs. I see many groups meeting there. On a side note, there is often mention of exposure for board members. The problem with law, those who don't know it fear it the most and those who should fear it have no care nor concern.

You will find a very hard time discovering any judgments against any volunteer non-profit board member or even the organization itself for any malfeasance claims. As a rule, a judge will not even allow filing of a lawsuit if the recipient is judgment-proof for one or more reasons. We are not a Tavern, School, Buisiness or any other deep pocket organization worth suing. If it were so, better be more afraid of giving recommendations for mixing electricity with saltwater using any equipment. There is a MUCH larger potential exposure for claim there, than the allowing the consumption of beer by responsible adults in a controlled setting. Any other good ideas?

 

[bigblue141]

ITS A NON PROFIT ORG.can't make profit....

Honestly?

I suggest you do some homework.

Plenty of "Non Profit" organizations go through millions of dollars a year. I used to be a member of a motorcycle club that was non-profit. With activities we did we brought in close to $100k a year. We purchased lots of land, heavy equipment, and remodeled our buildings. You're allowed to make money, you just have to spend it

 

[returnofsid]

(hey I'm not BOD anymore I do not have to be PC

I for one am thankful for everything the BOD does, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, it cannot be said enough, running the club takes a lot of time and effort, they do not deserve the criticism and accusations (suggestions are good, solutions are even better)

PC??? Here on RF??? HAHA!

I second your Kudos to the PSAS BOD, and BOD members of the past!! I've followed PSAS for several years now, staying somewhat in tune with meetings, plans and great activities that take place. You guys do a wonderful job and do deserve a big Thank You!!

Kris is absolutely right! Suggestions and possible Solutions!!

 

[bigblue141]

I have read through this thread several times trying to come to an understanding of the thought process behind many of the accusations. From the beginning I took this thread as a means to gauge the interest of the other "NORTHENDERS." I did not know that this was a public proposal to the BOD of PSAS. I thought this was merely a tool to find out how many are interested. The civil war is over lets not reenact it with our petty stabs and pokes at other people in the club.

I was thinking the same thing. A poll for people that live in the "Northern Puget Sound" to see if they would be interested in joining a club that they may not be a part of. Instead Jeff gets blasted from all directions. It looked like a "Who would be interested if this happened" not I'm trying to put this together and get blank checks from the PSAS to spend as I please. Cause from the outside looking in, the first few pages of posts tossing Jeff to the wolves made me ASHAMED of being a PSAS member. If I was new to the hobby reading this thread reading how the "BOD" talk about it's going to stay this way no matter what anyone else thinks, I would not join the PSAS. Granted by page 8 there is starting to be some constructive collaberation of ideas coming together, but if I'm new, I stopped reading by page 2 or 3 thinking if I don't live south of Seattle and want to be part of this club I have a lot of time I'm burning up on I-5.

Mike/Tom,

Thank you both for your patience with all of this.

I offer my apologies to RF for this thread getting out of hand the way it has. It certainly wasnt the intent nor was it the intention of ruffeling feathers.

When a new company launches a product, they don't just throw it out to the public until they have taken some polls, done some product research, then after all of that is done, they make a proposal.

This thread was about all of that, about seeing what people thought about it and to see if the idea was even worth pursuing.

I am lucky in the fact that I have made alot of what I consider to be friends through PSAS and gain alot of knowledge from those who have a whole lot of experience than I.

Thanks All!

I don't understand how this ever got blown out of the water the way it did. From the very beginning it was to "GAUGE INTEREST ON A TOPIC" There are many of us that are new to the club (PSAS) and are unaware of the past failures.

IF MEETING LOCATIONS CONTINUE TO BE A GIANT THING THAT GETS NAGGED ABOUT, why not try something new?

While 3 BOD members may have asked that this thread be closed, none of the existing BOD members started this thread. This isn't a PSAS thread. This is a thread that a Reef Frontiers member created, to judge whether there is an interest, among Reef Frontier members, in a certain geographical area, in creating an addition to the PSAS club, to further cater to the needs of more members. Nothing more, Nothing less.

I have heard a lot of very valid points, on both sides of the debate. I still haven't voted, because I'm not sure which way I'm leaning...lol. As I said, very valid points, very valid concerns and a lot of strong feelings. These are all great things!! Now, channel all of those strong feelings into making the great PSAS club even better than it already is!!

Another one of those things that would have driven me away from the club. Closing a thread bringing up new ideas that could, maybe, and possibly work to get more participation within the PSAS.

+1 to everything that Duane (Trido) has mentioned. I feel the same way in a lot of aspects of what was mentioned in his post. It will hurt the club more than benefit it as a whole.

I think if 20 people joined and 10 of those were regulars at meetings in a "North Chapter" I think it would be worth it. You are helping people.

As a new member I'm not aware of the past discussions on this topic. In reading the posts from the current and past BOD members I can see that it's been a topic that has been brought up before.

My question is do we want things to change (get more participation from North Enders, etc) or do we want to keep things running as they are?

If I was a non-member (or a new member) of PSAS and I wandered into this thread I could get the impression that the BOD does not want things to change. Further, they don't want any type of discussion about things changing. That might not be true, but that is the impression the posts give.

I've been able to attend one meeting since I joined in August. I attended the "shark breeding" meeting at the Rainforest Cafe. I had planned on attending the meeting in Renton, but had a conflicting meeting at church. My son had a soccer game in Mukilteo right in the middle of the September Frag Swap.

Would I attend more meetings if they were closer to where I lived, maybe. I work in attending meetings when I can. I have family, church and work commitments that take precedent.

Might I suggest instead of throwing up all that has happened in the past we instead look towards the future. Nothing can be gained by saying "well it didn't work in the past, so it won't work now".

Could not of said it any better myself.

Jeff correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe the intent of this thread was to gauge interest in having a North Chapter by Northenders. Really, If you don't live in the north end of Puget Sound, I don't think you should have ever voted. If we had 20-30 people that wanted to go forward with this, then you come out with a poll to the PSAS BOD with a plan of action. If there's no interest in the northenders to have our own "Chapter" it is not going to go any further than that. Don't get all spun up over it.

Secondly,
I don't think Jeff was ever asking for a blank check or any of the PSAS funds for that matter. A "North Chapter" would not get different membership cards than the rest of PSAS, we're all PSAS and there would be no splitting of the club.

Third,
You want more participation?
I think every area should have their own "Chapter"
Do the meetings all over the puget sound like is already happening or attempting to happen. Don't we all have internet? Set up a web cam and the "Chapters" can get together and participate in the meetings via video conference. If you want to physically go to the meeting location, go.
Have 2 or 3 BIG BLOW out meetings in a "central location." If the Hall in Kent is really big and they only charge $100, use that once a quarter. Sorry but majority rules, and if the majority of the members live south of seattle, then that's where the "BIG" events should be. There is a retarded amount of technology available to us, lets use it to get bigger, better, and get more people involved.

Don't know where to hold meetings? Guess what, you OWN the county fire stations. They are yours and several of them have classrooms and big open rooms in them. Talk to your fire chief. That's what we pay taxes for, use it.

Last point to piggy back off the meeting location. It would be stupid and detremental to the club when the majority of the members live south of Seattle to hold them all up North.

Society is changing. We are getting more and more busy. Like it or not, no matter how badly I or you wants to do something, figure 8 hours travel time then tell me if you're still going to do it. Probably not. Traffic is not getting any better, WSP will never enforce the stay out of the left lane unless you're passing law as they will loose all their road rage units. Let's figure out a way to get more people involved.

It doesn't cost money to hold meetings for a small group in someone's house.

Just some suggestions and food for thought the next time something like this pops up.

 

[TJL]

Cheers to all who have constructively added to this thread. Now after all this feedback and having discussed this in detail with Jeff for the last couple of months I would like to propose that those of us northenders that are serious about stepping up have an informal meeting to see what can be done in obtaining an affordable/convenient meeting place. Mike mentioned Shaun O'Donnels which is all of 50 yds from I-5 off 128th st exit, there is also a Grange Hall 30 yds from I-5 off 164th St exit that I'll check on.
Please pm me with interest and I'll do my best to put something together.

Todd

 

[user 2204]

Mike mentioned Shaun O'Donnels which is all of 50 yds from I-5 off 128th st exit, there is also a Grange Hall 30 yds from I-5 off 164th St exit that I'll check on.
Please pm me with interest and I'll do my best to put something together.

Todd

Shawn O'Donnells room is a great location. Right off the freeway and very friendly staff too. I can ask for more information if you'd like.
Banquet room at Shawn O'Donnell's

There's also some public libraries in the area that have rental rooms. I believe they are free of charge with the exception of Edmonds.
Sno-Isle Libraries: Mountlake Terrace Library - Meeting Rooms & About Us
Sno-Isle Libraries: Lynnwood Library - Meeting Rooms & About Us

I could also chat with my wife about a rental at the City of Mill Creek. Might be able to get a deal as she works for them. It would all depend on the costs, I understand. They have a small and large room as well as the counsel chambers too. And I think we may be able to get the counsel chambers free of cost. Just depends on what the meeting would intail if using the counsel chambers would be a viable option.

http://www.cityofmillcreek.com/PARKS AND RECREATION FILES/ROOM RENTAL PAGES/Small Community Room.pdf

 

[barrierreefcf]

I gotta +1 to BigBlue's post #108. It was a little disturbing to see how quickly the BOD wanted to shut this discussion down. These are the PSAS's paid members simply trying to have a discussion about an idea and whether or not it would improve the club. Don't jump down their throats or they will be alienated and may just split off on their own. Adam pointed out that this discussion comes up every year...well that means its an issue that needs continued work. It shouldn't be swept under the carpet because its frustrating or hard to deal with. It just means it needs to be continually examined for solutions. I'm sure that being a BOD member is very thankless and they probably get bombarded with requests that can't all be accomodated. Dealing with with this, when volunteering, is probably really annoying. Still...it goes with the territory.

Late in this thread Herefishy, Alex, and Kris had some great posts. If the club is going to skip the north-end chapter, then they should be open to occassional meetings in Everett, Lynwood, Marysville etc. I don't know that Redmond or Whidbey Island really count as one is fairly difficult to access and the other seems more east of center, than north. For this to work, the folks who want this need to help with the leg-work. I'm sure the BOD has their hands full, but I bet you will probably find them more open if you have a detailed plan including a location, costs, confirmed north-end support (guaranteed attendance) for such a meeting.

There are a lot of folks north of Seattle, or Tukwilla, or wherever "center" is determined to be. To ignore them, because support in the past wasn't what the club hoped, would be a mistake. I'm not sure a north chapter is the best solution but for a one year trial would it be terrible to run one like this.

- Create one new BOD position for north liason. As north end membership/involvement grows adjust accordingly.
- The north liason is solely responsible for finding their location and other logistics.
- Plan 4-6 big bang monthly meetings (annually) where the club is NOT split. One location near highest concentration of members.
- Decide on "center" for club. Include a poll question on the membership form each year that asks where you would likely attend a meeting. North of, or south of said "center."
- Also ask the question, "are you likely to attend meetings?" If the answer is no, they are not factored into funds allocation.
- Allocate funds based on these responses. Remember, 1/3 to 1/2 of the meetings will be combined, so this split meeting budget is only going to force extra creativity 6-8 times per year. Having two smaller meetings a few times per year may be a good thing. Newer folks may be intimidated by the larger groups of relative strangers. Having the option to go to a smaller group and get to know people might make them more comfortable attending the big bang meetings. This may increase overall attendence.
-Try to foster an attitude where senior members "sponsor" brand new members or non-members in the sense where they invite them to a smaller meeting. Maybe they carpool together. Almost like recruiting. Make them feel comfortable.
- Until the north attendance grows it makes sense to hold their meetings at sponsor stores, homes, free venue like firehouse, or even restaurants. If its just 10 folks attending they don't need much. Maybe the north people just want a chance to get together, casually, under the banner of a great club like the PSAS, without starting a rival club or creating a clique type feeling. Has anyone asked them this? I bet Rob at ARSA, Denny's, or other north stores I don't know about would be thrilled to have a group of hobbyists/customers come hang out. Could be wrong? I know that I wish we had enough space to have a meeting at our shop. The one we held at Blue Sierra years ago seemed like a successful meeting.
- I'd hold the split meetings on seperate days. Everyone is busy...having two different days available during split meeting months may increase overall attendence. I bet you'd see some north heading south and vice versa. Like it has been mentioned, if you want to go, you will drive. Sometimes people might not go simply because they have other plans so having that second option may be good.

Past and present BODs...you guys do great work for the club and the hobby. Look at your creativity and success with the Bob Moore event, frag swap, and help in getting SeaMax to come here next year. Know that many of us appreciate this work. The club will always need to examine the way things are run, logistics, etc. Hopefully, it can continue to be done in a productive, respectful manner

Sorry for spelling and grammar mistakes...to tired to re-read and spell check

 

[TJL]

Thanks Cy, for another constructive input from a different angle yet Sponsor / LFS. We are doing exactly that in holding a couple of informal northend PSAS member meetings to see who all is actually willing to step up in participation. I'll be arranging the first meeting to be held in the Everett area and then will assist Jeff for one a little further north. As many of us have stated there are a number of northend members and the potential for many more. We just need to find a way to accomodate everyones wishes, within reason of course.
Once again, please pm me or call if your interested in attending one of these get-togethers.

WE CAN MAKE THIS GREAT CLUB OF OURS EVEN BETTER!!!

Todd

 

[TheKraken]

I bet Rob at ARSA, Denny's, or other north stores I don't know about would be thrilled to have a group of hobbyists/customers come hang out. Could be wrong? I know that I wish we had enough space to have a meeting at our shop. The one we held at Blue Sierra years ago seemed like a successful meeting.

I will admit that I love going to meetings in Kent because I can drop by the stores I do not get to see as often. BR even supported the frag workshop with a PSAS member sale and I picked up some stuff I would not have otherwise.

Rob is arguably the one that got me thinking salt and helped me through the stupid questions/research phase. I like going to his store anyways.

 

[user 2204]

Awesome post Cy and love to hear the input from a sponsor/lfs.

I also belong to the Pacific Northwest Camaro Club and they too had issues with the location of meetings. Also the idea of having a senior member sponsor a new member is a GREAT idea. That is how I got involved with the PNWCC. A member of that club noticed my car and we started talking about the club. He helped me out by introducing me to all these great people in the club. It was great and I had a blast. Tech sessions, speakers, the list goes on and on.

Point being is the "foster" attitude that Cy mentioned in his previous post. I don't see that here with the PSAS as much as we should. I also don't see many, shall we say "Tech Sessions". The last meeting was good and a little informative, but not what I expect form a DIY workshop (tech session). Sorry I work as an automotive tech as a trade and therefor find the term "Tech Session" comforting. A "Tech Session" (DIY) to me is where someone who has knowledge of a specific topic comes and demonstrates and talks about it with others. Full Hands-on kind of situation. Do we all hate hearing or seeing the same topics such as plumbing, lighting and how to set up this or that, sure we do. But sometimes it is nice for the new guy/gal to see and sometimes us old folks like to have refreshers.

Why not do what the PNWCC members in the Northend do from time to time and between meetings. Lets all get together at a local restaurant for a "Casual" get together and brain storm. Just like another car club that a friend belongs to, they meet at Barleys in Edmonds once a month. Let us Northenders do that every month for 3 months and see what happens. You never know, we may have a good plan by then or we may find that it reallly isn't going to be a reality.

In closing, anyone who would be interested in an informal meeting at a nice cosy restaurant and talk reef or what ever, LET'S DO IT. We don't need a big venue for say 10-15 people. Coffee and water and maybe some appetizers, nothing fancy at all.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[DolphinLVR]

Hello all!

I know I have been quiet, but the way the thread was going, I felt it best to do so!

CY, Todd, Bigblue, spllbnd and all the others all I gotta say is awesome posts!

I have been in contact with TJL and would like to get these informal meetings off the ground and lets see what we all come up with. Feel free to post your suggestions here or you can always PM me.

Jeff

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Looks like we have quite a number of good souls who reside in the North-end already eager for an informal get together. Going to be a blast. Used to do this with many South end friends and still have fond memories of these gatherings. I think Todd or Alex would be a great spearhead for names and the old Time, Place, Form and Event.

Think after we demonstrate how much fun and ease it is for casual and fun North end get togethers, perhaps we can start some new plans

One funny observation. Of the NO "voters, only one is from the North end :>)
Guess it was a basic flaw in the Poll language.

 

[TJL]

Looks like we have quite a number of good souls who reside in the North-end already eager for an informal get together. Going to be a blast. Used to do this with many South end friends and still have fond memories of these gatherings. I think Todd or Alex would be a great spearhead for names and the old Time, Place, Form and Event.

Think after we demonstrate how much fun and ease it is for casual and fun North end get togethers, perhaps we can start some new plans

One funny observation. Of the NO "voters, only one is from the North end :>)
Guess it was a basic flaw in the Poll language.

Smarty Bass !!! who said you were invited :badgrin::badgrin::badgrin:

Yes Mike I think that this is going to be alot of fun for everyone and just whats needed to jumpstart northend participation into a more cohesive fashion. There is indeed quite a number of reefkeepers already showing interest and look forward to see how far this will go. Wether we merge this into the PSAS or just keep it a casual get together of like-minded hobbiest it wil be a win-win for everyone including the PSAS, RF and LFS's as is bound to attract additional people.
As soon as I complete a few more 'Honey Do's We'll be happy to host a get together/ club meeting hopefully during a little better weather than we have now.

Cheers all, Todd

 

[DolphinLVR]

Smarty Bass !!! who said you were invited :badgrin::badgrin::badgrin:

Yes Mike I think that this is going to be alot of fun for everyone and just whats needed to jumpstart northend participation into a more cohesive fashion. There is indeed quite a number of reefkeepers already showing interest and look forward to see how far this will go. Wether we merge this into the PSAS or just keep it a casual get together of like-minded hobbiest it wil be a win-win for everyone including the PSAS, RF and LFS's as is bound to attract additional people.
As soon as I complete a few more 'Honey Do's We'll be happy to host a get together/ club meeting hopefully during a little better weather than we have now.

Cheers all, Todd

This will most definately be a win/win for all

Mike, your right the poll answere could have been done better on my end, but all in all I have to say that it did do what it was intended to do to gauge what kind of interest there would be in the Northend

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Smarty Bass !!! who said you were invited :badgrin::badgrin::badgrin:

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

This will most definately be a win/win for all
Mike, your right the poll answere could have been done better on my end, but all in all I have to say that it did do what it was intended to do to gauge what kind of interest there would be in the Northend

It did the job perfectly! It even showed how little the South enders are interested, in Northend activity LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[DolphinLVR]

LOL Mike