Northend Chapter of PSAS?

[Workaholic]

Mouse> I'm thinking that if it is an issue every year, we should be working to find some kind of fix.

JohnPeezy> Exactly right! I hope to use input from this forum to help Jeff craft a proposal that will address the various concerns of the membership. This is not the proposal, this is the place to help create one.

There have been fixes attempted a few times and every time the majority of the north end members fail to even show up to meetings that are specifically catered to them.

Duane: Thats why all 3 members of the existing bod have asked that the thread be closed but RF staff has deemed that a bad idea.

 

[Skimmy]

ok you guys... no one is "fighting" here...
and no one is being "ridiculous". there are no "cliques",
and no one, not even maus and me, have been infantile...
some people have strong opinions, i cracked a couple jokes at psas's expense,
and really thats about it.
this is a PUBLIC forum, after all, and your bound to hear some jokes, ranting, trolling, flaming, etc...
and if psas subjects always "end in a fight on RF" then maybe that's worth a modicum of consideration as well.

 

[trido]

Here are some thoughts from a former BOD member. Not me.

Few quick thoughts:

1) I would hate to see a total split of the club as it would limit the opportunities to meet new people outside of your general area - maybe have a couple of the big draw meetings be just one place/time for both chapters e.g. Bob Moore Swap, Picnic

2) You might want to consider having the meetings on the same weekend, in order to reduce cost on speaker meetings, it would be cheaper to bring a speaker in to do both meetings on the same day/weekend. While I understand the rational of giving people the opportunity to attend both chapters, in reality I doubt many will attend both. Many of the members actually were talking about quarterly meetings to reduce the demands on their time, so I really do not see people giving up a good part of their Saturday, twice in one month for the club.

3) I am concerned with the ability to find BOD members for 2 clubs (especially ongoing, there will be initial momentum, but over time that fades), typically it is hard to get enough volunteers just for one, in fact when I joined the BOD there was talk about the club not continuing due to lack of volunteers . . .

Just my 2 cents worth . . .

 

[mojoreef]

Tom I was approached to see if it was alright to start this thread. The idea was to have a conversation and possibly see if their were other members of RF that werent in a club and that lived up north. Should I have said no?? If Iwas to close every thread where a couple of folks didnt have the same opinion....well we wouldnt have to many threads going.

Mojo

 

[DolphinLVR]

Mike/Tom,

Thank you both for your patience with all of this.

I offer my apologies to RF for this thread getting out of hand the way it has. It certainly wasnt the intent nor was it the intention of ruffeling feathers.

When a new company launches a product, they don't just throw it out to the public until they have taken some polls, done some product research, then after all of that is done, they make a proposal.

This thread was about all of that, about seeing what people thought about it and to see if the idea was even worth pursuing.

I am lucky in the fact that I have made alot of what I consider to be friends through PSAS and gain alot of knowledge from those who have a whole lot of experience than I.

Thanks All!

 

[trido]

Here are my thoughts:
If a subchapter were to form, its unlikely that membership fee increases would ever happen because of it. The club buys enough membership cards for near 500 people and ususally ends up with 100 annually. Door prizes and raffles are only done when the club can afford it.
Where will the meetings be held? The BOD has been asking for north end locations for two years and noone has found one or has offered their house. Next months meeting is being held on Whidbey Island because someone finally offered their house.
Will there be members willing to work as a (northern chapter) BOD in the north end next year or the year after? IME everyone wants a club but very few are willing to do the work. Having been on the BOD for three years I can tell you, there is alot of work involved in each meeting. Getting members for one BOD is difficult as is. The PSAS cant even get its members to take pictures and do write ups to share on our web site. From the comfort of their own home. Not many people are willing to do extra for the club.


Splitting the club is IMO not an option. LFS arent going to be willing to donate raffle items to two small groups of 15 rather than one larger group. I say 15 because 30 is the average that shows to monthly meetings. National sponsors are hard enough to coax to give to us. Two small groups wont have nearly as much clout on a national scale. This would be a step backward for puget sound reefers as a whole.
I finally realise that for two years I've been making excuses for southend meetings being a majority. Its not that more people live there. Its that more people living there are willing to volunteer as BOD members and do the work. The PSAS BOD makes every desicion by majority vote. Whether it be meeting location, membership card design, guest speaker topics and monthly budgets.

The best way I see possible for more meetings to be in the north end and evenly spread throughout the puget sound is not to start a subchapter, But for more members from the north end to become active in the club by joining the BOD and becoming a majority of it . Do that and then all of the meetings can be from Seattle north. Plain and simple.

The BOD as long as Ive been involved in this club has done its absolute best to create a variety of meetings from educational to outright fun throughout the Puget Sound. IMO the PSAS is a great club and ranks right up with some of the larger national clubs from what Ive seen.
I know for fact that DFWMAS (Dallas Forth Worth Texas), BAR (Bay Area Reefers Ive lived there and it makes our city feel small), and Manhatten Reefers (New York) deal with this exact issue because Ive had indepth conversations with their ex-presidents about it. They have most of their meetings in the same locations every month. You either feel the meeting is worth it or dont go.

I personaly have been to meetings as Far south as Graham and as far west as Bremerton. Because the meetings interested me. Once I drove to Bellingham to help a reeferette install light fixture. . I drive to BR all the time for supplies and corals 40 minutes each way. I wasnt willing to drive to Fry's just over the hill from them last weekend for Christmas shopping. Your either willing or not.

I could keep going on but dont see the point.

I think a north chapter is a bad idea, I think splitting the club is a worse idea. I do however think that having members througout the Puget Sound getting involved in the club is a great idea.

 

[jrgilles]

Well said, and good points trido

 

[returnofsid]

Thats why all 3 members of the existing bod have asked that the thread be closed but RF staff has deemed that a bad idea.

While 3 BOD members may have asked that this thread be closed, none of the existing BOD members started this thread. This isn't a PSAS thread. This is a thread that a Reef Frontiers member created, to judge whether there is an interest, among Reef Frontier members, in a certain geographical area, in creating an addition to the PSAS club, to further cater to the needs of more members. Nothing more, Nothing less.

I have heard a lot of very valid points, on both sides of the debate. I still haven't voted, because I'm not sure which way I'm leaning...lol. As I said, very valid points, very valid concerns and a lot of strong feelings. These are all great things!! Now, channel all of those strong feelings into making the great PSAS club even better than it already is!!

 

[spllbnd2]

+1 to everything that Duane (Trido) has mentioned. I feel the same way in a lot of aspects of what was mentioned in his post. It will hurt the club more than benefit it as a whole.

 

[spllbnd2]

Will there be members willing to work as a (northern chapter) BOD in the north end next year or the year after?

I finally realise that for two years I've been making excuses for southend meetings being a majority. Its not that more people live there. Its that more people living there are willing to volunteer as BOD members and do the work. The PSAS BOD makes every desicion by majority vote. Whether it be meeting location, membership card design, guest speaker topics and monthly budgets.

The best way I see possible for more meetings to be in the north end and evenly spread throughout the puget sound is not to start a subchapter, But for more members from the north end to become active in the club by joining the BOD and becoming a majority of it . Do that and then all of the meetings can be from Seattle north. Plain and simple.

I do however think that having members througout the Puget Sound getting involved in the club is a great idea.

These are all excellent points.

No Northenders on the BOD right now are there?

How many people from Shoreline and north have attended a least one meeting in the past 6 months?

And out of those who Did go to a meeting from the Northend, how may try to get invloved with the PSAS and help out from time to time?

I too remember that last year the PSAS BOD asked for some ideas of places in the Greater Seattle area to have meetings at lower costs than that of BCC and in line with what the PSAS is paying for the grange. Well not many raised a voice. This is why I would be suprised if a Northend chapter would be able to stay afloat for very long.

 

[TheKraken]

I think a north chapter is a bad idea, I think splitting the club is a worse idea. I do however think that having members througout the Puget Sound getting involved in the club is a great idea.

Mojo moved it so the club forum owner can take responsibility for open/close. The person you need to ask is ... RF Staff... Darn.

The challenge of the north end is much more profound. I am in the middle but think of Bellingham or somewhere over on the peninsula. There is always some one farther away without the freedom of mobility. How do I get involved if I am unable to travel/host a meeting?

 

[johnpeezy]

There is actually a member of the board up north ghanzi he does no post on rf much and sadly becomes easily overlooked here
Sorry ghanzi

 

[trido]

There is actually a member of the board up north ghanzi he does no post on rf much and sadly becomes easily overlooked here
Sorry ghanzi

Nah, He's Central. His opinion don't count. JK

Ghazni doesnt post on RF or show up to every meeting but has been an asset to the club for several years now.

 

[spllbnd2]

Sorry Ghazni. Didn't mean to over look you in the Northend, if he is north.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

I agree please lock this thread.

two out of three BOD members want this to happen

So the purpose of the board is to censure discussion? One last question, after much discussion on having meetings at members homes, I held the BBQ at my place in Mill Creek. (Duane, you forget this Northend volunteered meeting location?) Did the entire board show up? How many South enders showed? This meeting was a money maker, and I was disappointed to not see the entire board there. Discussions should be allowed and just because a couple get rude is not reason to censor the entire group from conducting a civil interchange.

AND we cant have beer. it's a liability! fro the PSAS.. if something bad happened the BOD would be held accountable!

This is a falsehood I have tried to clarify for years.

My opinion is we don't need to split anything, but either we get more opportunities for friendly gatherings in homes where there are no "rules" of must do and can't do and just a chance to sit back and chat, then these debates will continue ad infinitum.

 

[trido]

I held the BBQ at my place in Mill Creek. (Duane, you forget this Nothend volunteered meeting location?) Did the entire board show up? How many South enders showed? This meeting was a money maker, and I was disappointed to not see the entire board there. Some of the BOD had family to deal with (kids soccer) Family always comes first .




My opinion is we don't need to split anything, but either we get more opportunities for friendly gatherings in homes where there are no "rules" of must do and can't do and just achance to sit back and chat, then these debates will continue ad infinitum.

Sorry Mike, while writing down my thoughts I did forget your house as a North End location.
That would actually make for three meetings (if you include this upcoming January) from Seattle North in only eight months. Since there werent any meetings in July, August and December thats make for over 50% of the meetings in the North End. Kinda makes the whole meeting location complaint from the North End a mute point when you look at it that way.

Last months meeting in Redmond was pretty quiet. I was shocked. DIY meetings are ususally fun, there were a huge amount of items to raffle, Two fish tanks and a half dozen fish. Only about 20 people showed up. it was a mixed lot from both north and south but IMO very few.

Your last statement is very true Mike. We need to get the meetings back into the members homes for the most part and spread throughout the region. Get member participation and get back to the roots of the club, if that doesnt happen, this conversation will never end. Members dont have to join the BOD to participate, they can open their homes to their friends.

 

[rainydave]

As a new member I'm not aware of the past discussions on this topic. In reading the posts from the current and past BOD members I can see that it's been a topic that has been brought up before.

My question is do we want things to change (get more participation from North Enders, etc) or do we want to keep things running as they are?

If I was a non-member (or a new member) of PSAS and I wandered into this thread I could get the impression that the BOD does not want things to change. Further, they don't want any type of discussion about things changing. That might not be true, but that is the impression the posts give.

I've been able to attend one meeting since I joined in August. I attended the "shark breeding" meeting at the Rainforest Cafe. I had planned on attending the meeting in Renton, but had a conflicting meeting at church. My son had a soccer game in Mukilteo right in the middle of the September Frag Swap.

Would I attend more meetings if they were closer to where I lived, maybe. I work in attending meetings when I can. I have family, church and work commitments that take precedent.

Might I suggest instead of throwing up all that has happened in the past we instead look towards the future. Nothing can be gained by saying "well it didn't work in the past, so it won't work now".

 

[johnpeezy]

Is there something in the bowls of the PSAS bylaws stating that northerners cannot run for the PSAS bod?
May i suggest a non-hostile take over of the psas by north enders next year, in the form of running for positions.
I think last year i smashed the competetion for the position of membership chair. By defeating nobody with an overwhelming ammount of four votes, it was a landslide.

And about the whole bod trying to censor opionions i had no issue with opinions stated here in anyway.
It was surfacing of the rudeness between members that had me concerned, as well as mojoreefer (i think hes the one who moved this to the psas section) because it had the potential of getting out of hand, for our moderators to handle the way they see fit, who by the way is the RF-staff.

This is a snippet from the reeffrontiers user agreement and i am 100% positive the issue being discussed can be classified as "political" and it is probably there for a reason.



Political or religious posts by their nature can become very controversial and therefore are subject to removal at any time in order to avoid potently "flame" wars.

This is my last post on this thread.

 

[TJL]

Well said Dave, a now I want to thank all the mods & BOD for keeping this thread active. IMHO the real root of the issue is our horrible traffic that makes any travel through Seattle/Bellevue in either direction a major PITA. This is not going to change, so how do we get past it as a club? As far as southend participation being the majority its simply evolved that way just as it would/could have up north. Even though I voted yes I clearly see the apposing views but still the question remains on what are/can we do about it?
I like alot of you have stepped up to volunteer for various organizations that were in need and were geographicaly convenient, for me 7 years with the BSA, 6 yrs as a soccer and baseball coach and often with the same group of generous people. As stated all convenient to where I live, does this make me selfish a hero or a little of both. Point being made is there are alot of great people volunteering thier time to the club but, should they be expected to travel 3 counties to do so.
Now jump to the 'future' where we remain a single entity club and where a handful of northenders have stepped up and half or more of the meetings are well north of Seattle will the club benefit? Will southend participation remain strong? Will the club flourish to point of needing to divide into chapters?

I selfish or not would/will rejoin and step up my participation when/should we become more centralized. I have 28+yrs of reefkeeping to share and enjoy doing so.

Soooo peeps lets figure this out!

Todd

 

[justforfun]

well said todd