Pinched Mantle

[Barry N.]

Nikki,

They look so much better. And I now believe that croceas are not hardier than maximas because we had three in quarantine and non of them made it.

Mine have not completely colored back up but there is not sign of PM.

If all goes right, I have been invited to VietNam some time in Sept or Oct to visit a few clam farms. Would be interesting to see some other collection station in other parts of the world.

 

[Travis]

Barry, and thank you for the proactive stance you have taken on this issue. It shows that you are not so much concerned about the business side of things but more about the hobbiest side. Can't wait to order some more clams from you in the future when I finally get rid of the pinching in my clam tank.

 

[Barry N.]

Travis,

I feel we are in the clear now as far as the PM goes but am a little concerned that possible the protozaon might be present in some of the people tank water that has had this parasite in the past.

The clams that we have on our site is from another supplier and after coming out of quarantine and there is now signs of PM. We have kept track of the clams that have been shipped out over the past week and all seem to be doing fine. I know I echo this a lot :badgrin: but still would like to see more hobbyist quarantine there livestock before placing in their display tank. ya ya ya

 

[NaH2O]

The clams that we have on our site is from another supplier and after coming out of quarantine and there is now signs of PM.

Barry - I guess I misread this statement earlier. You received clams from a different supplier, quarantined them, and they are now showing signs of pinched mantle? Just want to clarify. Are you going to treat them?

 

[Barry N.]

You received clams from a different supplier, quarantined them, and they are now showing signs of pinched mantle? Just want to clarify. Are you going to treat them?

The ones that we are receiving NOW, show NO sign of PM after 2 weeks in quarantine. Different supplier.

 

[Maxx]

Thats an important distinction...thanks for the clarification Barry.

Nick

 

[NaH2O]

Clams are looking good for the most part. The smaller clam has been in the tank now for 9 days and is colored back up. I'll keep you posted if things change.

 

[Barry N.]

Nikki,

Clams look awesome!

I think maybe those suppliers got their act togeather after several emails and such. The clams that we have received these past few weeks show NO signs of PM !!!

 

[Travis]

Barry, what are the suppliers doing? Did they clean out their systems... treat their clams... start being more discriminative about what clams they are harvesting... treat their tanks... etc.?

 

[Barry N.]

From what they told me, is that they sterized their holding tank and put in new substrate. HOPEFULLY this will solve the problem for the long run.

 

[Barry N.]

Updated report.

All clams that we have had in the past month show no signs of PM after 10-14 quarantined but still at a little loss. I have seen on some other forums that some people are reporting their clams of having PM after a few days in their tanks. We are doing water samples every week and no sign of protozoan! That leads us to believe that some tanks have the parasite and when introducing a clam, after days it is attached. From all the research we have done these past months and studing different types or protozoan, it can be introduced by other animals but with the clams, it shows up in the mantle, (easy for us to see) where with some other livestock may not be noticeable. Just a thought of course.

All the clams that were treated with metroidazole (21), we lost 2 and the others recovered nicely and have since colored up.

Quarantine, Quarantine, ALL LIVESTOCK!

 

[chris&barb]

about two weeks ago i stopped treatment because my clams were looking better. i moved 1 crocea back into my clam tank and after 4 days it looked fine so i moved 1 derasa,2 squamosas and 5 maximas into the clam tank but left 2 maximas and 5 croceas in the qt.the next day3 maximas and 1 crocea in the clam tank and all the clams in the qt started to pinch again so i went back to my notes from a few years ago when we had what we think was white spot(per D. Knops book) at that time we contacted U of DE and U of Md marine bio. and what they sudgested was to drop the temp. to 74 extend the photo to 12 hours and feed phyto.it worked then so i thought i would give it a shot.the temp is now 75 in both the qt and main tank and everything looks great.

 

[NaH2O]

chris&barb - how long did you have to do the treatment (dropped temp, increased photo)?

 

[chris&barb]

when we had the white spot we ran the tank at 74 for 2 months (reg. 78-79)and phyto every nite

 

[Barry N.]

Another theory after taking with Robert ( Bob ) Fenner, author of Reef Invertebrates. today regarding this topic. The protozaon could have been present for a long time but with stress of shipping and new environment may cause the same effect as ich on a fish. ANOTHER good reason to quarantine.

Have seen some disturbing threads on another forum but not going to get into that at this time as it serves no purpose and it is not productive.

In the past weeks we have spend a lot of time calling and writing to customers to find out that this is not a wide spread disease as some would have us think. Is there a problem, yes! Some have said that they have never heard of this pinched mantle, well it has been posted on our support forum for over a year and on other forums for over 2 years. The awareness has been there all the time.

We will continue to purchase clams from our reliable suppliers and quarantine them like always and no clams have ever left our facility that did not appear to look healthy.

 

[chris&barb]

i just want to clarify a few things. im not saying that the Metro treatment dosent work!just that i still had some pinching after treating for 3 weeks.and i think a combination of a few things will be the answer. im still running my tank's at 74 and will keep them there for awhile

 

[Barry N.]

Thanks for the up date and also keep us informed.

 

[NaH2O]

For sure QT is so important. I think a lot of positives have come from this thread. Barry, you took the initiative to determine what is the root cause of the pinching. Second, I feel like steps have been made to erradicate the disease, however wide spread it is or isn't. I had never heard of PM before, until I had a clam with it. Even if it started showing signs in QT, I don't know that I would have picked up on it in the early stages. Quarantine is important, and a postitive for me because of the pinched mantle and lengthy treatment....I now have a QT with MH lighting. It is great because I can QT corals without worry for lighting needs.

Barry, has the lab made any indication that the protozoan can become resistant to the metronidazole? I am interested in this. There may be some tank conditions that create a perfect environment for the protozoan to either propagate more readily, or be effected in some way that the clam pays the price. That may be why chris&barb had success with reduced temperature....could be the protozoan wasn't able to function at those temps, and subsequently parished (of course these are just guesses). I would urge those attempting any form of treatment to perhaps choose one method, then give the clam time to fully recover before trying something else. I wonder if there is more damage being done through stress, then good for the clam?

 

[chris&barb]

Nikki ,i dont know but i think that the protozoan does build a resistanse to the metro. when i started my treatment i was just adding enought metro for the water change(every day for a week)untill i learned that i should have been treating the full water volume of my qt.then i treated them with a full dose for 2 weeks.every time i stoped, with in a few days the pinching would come back.so i took a risk and put a few that were looking good back into the main tank.and like 2 days later the clams in both tanks were pinching again. my clams look so relaxed now that they are at 74 . i 4got what happy clams looked likeuntill now. i have SPS,LPS and softies all in the same system (and fish) and the only change is my xenia isnt pulsing as fast.

 

[steve-s]

How many of those seeing re-infection have crustaceans in their main systems?

Barry,

Your's still PM free and do any of your tanks have crustaceans?

Cheers
Steve