Red Bugs - Inevitable?

[Elmo18]

Awesome job on the treatment Mike.

I just want to follow up with what I did a couple months ago. What I did was put a fair amount of ground up/mortar&pestled pill and mixed water with it. I then dumped it in my sump. I took out carbon, etc. THe first time, I did a water change about 8 hours. I then did the second treatment 5 days later, but this time no water change. I actually forgot about it, and just dumped carbon back in. My cleaner shrimp lived, and so did my pods apparently. I can see pods in my tank, so that is a good sign.

The main thing is after those treatments, my corals (or the corals i had) opened up more and there were no red bugs on the infected corals.

- Elmo

 

[dgasmd]

OK, so I went back and read the entire thing. That is the last time I jump into a thread at page 14 without reading from the begining LOL...........................

 

[CarlaW]

I am about 3 hours into my first treatment. So far , I noticed that the pod population might be taking a good sized hit. There are some crabs wandering around aimlessly. My shrimp, 3 cleaners and 3 blood reds, are hanging in there. I start a new thread later with all the gory details.

 

[MtnDewMan]

Just started a treatment 30 minutes ago ... crossing fingers Small tank here. used about 1/5th a pill for this treatment

 

[Maxx]

Mike, I can certainly understand your desire to refrain from doing another bazillion gallon water change....I was just thinking since some of your crabs survived the 2nd dose, maybe you didnt use a strong enough dose??
But your orp readings kinda tell you otherwise....
I think your fine with the treatments you've already done in all likelyhood. I think I only waited 2 days between treatments and I havent seen one since. I dont think you really ahve to worry too much about these guys going into holes to evade the Interceptor. If you think about it, they only leave the coral if its disturbed violently, and you're just pouring the Interceptor laden water into the system, so their shouldnt be any real cause for alarm for them......til they start dying anyway...
I'm seeing more and more pods in my tank so I'm happy along those lines.

Charlie and Chuck,
I went out and bought a small 10 gallon tank that I hooked a a powerhead up to, and dumped all my hermits, (cept for the one I couldnt find...), one of my Blood shrimp, and the three acro crabs into while the treatment was going on. I was unable to get one of my bloodshirmp out intitially, but somewhere around the 4-5 hour mark of the treatment, he/she started acting a little "off" and I was able to get it out of the tank safely. Both blood shrimp survived, the hermit in the tank I couldnt get out didnt...and neither did an emereld crab that somehow survived the 1st, but not the 2nd treatment...

Alberto,
I disagree with your assessment that the medication becomes less active in your system after a few hours. Thinking about the original purpose of this drug, (Milbemycin Oxime which is the active ingredient that coincidentally kills crustaceans in addition to heartworms) is to a monthly heartworm medication...so it should have a reletively long half life. From my own observations, I lost two more scarlett hermits after did a water change, ran carbon, and turned on my skimmer. One died a day after the 2nd treatment, and the 2nd died 2 days after the treatment. I have a 58 gallon BB tank with an Iwaki 55RLT pushing approx 1K gph through my clsoed loop...so stagnant areas where a heavier than water solution could settle dont exist in my tank.

I realize thats nowhere near a scientific observation, but the design behind the drugs intended purpose and my own observations in the system lead me to believe that Interceptor stays in the tank a little longer than folks intially think.

Nick

 

[MtnDewMan]

3 1/2 hours into treatment. The acro crabs that I know of I believe are dead. They were in a thicker colony and couldn't get to them without tearing them apart. My peppermint shrimp is still alive.

I really hate this treatment knowing I am killing these crabs, but I do know it is working against the bugs. The most infested coral (that I can anyway) seems to have FAR fewer bugs on it. And the polyps partially extended. Usually there is no extension.

A few hours to go then a water change.

 

[CarlaW]

Well, my first treatment is over, all 6 shrimp survived and I am seeing more crabs moving. Maybe the aftermath is not as bad as I thought
I'll really be able to tell what survived after next weeks treatment!!

 

[mojoreef]

I disagree with your assessment that the medication becomes less active in your system after a few hours.

24 to 48 hours Nick


Mike

 

[CarlaW]

12 hours after, I may lose 1 cleaner shrimp, he looks pretty wasted, but I did see 4 out of 6 emerald crabs, I am hoping that the other 2 are just in hiding. All in all, I don't think the carnage was as bad as I expected. We'll wait a couple of days to determine the rest of the story.

Just a question for all who have treated, how many of you decided to clean your skimmer really good while the treatment was goin on?

 

[middletonmark]

Yep, a perfect time to do those sort of things.
With all that water changing, a good time to siphon out the sump well, clean the skimmer, clean out the overflows

Glad to hear folks treatments are going well. Some of my emeralds made it through my treatment, but lost all the bugs - just FYI.

 

[CarlaW]

Do you think your bugs will come back on their own, or are you gonna try and seed your tank again?

 

[MtnDewMan]

My treatment I would say went well. I lost my acro crabs. I am unclear if my pepperment survived or not. He hides so much to begin with. I saw him around 3 hours into it and he was still alive. But not sure at this point. I felt awful about knowing the crabs were going to go. But so far I think the red bugs are gone. I will do another treatment next weekend for sure.

I performed a water change, got the skimmer back online and put in some carbon last night. Today the tank is no worse for wear except for the missing crabs

 

[reedman]

Glad to see everyone's treatments are going as well as expected. I've given my vet the info on the treatment...now I just wait to see if they'll prescribe it and grow the cohonas to actually do the treatment. I'm thinking if I can get the acro crabs out and the cleaner shimp and put them in a QT, then I'll treat.

 

[sarmo]

i treated yesterday. 1 1/4 pill for a 500 gallon tank w/ a small 25 gallon sump. i couldn't find any red bugs after the 70gallon water change. i did the water change at 7 hours. only a few blue leg hermits were moving, most were flipped over and sucked into their shell. i hope they are just stunned. the coral banded shrimp and at least one of my cleaner shrimp made it through. a sally light foot and emerald crab also made it. i have a black spiney urchin and it was "stunned" for several hours.

i know it has been recommended to treat 3 times but if there is no larval stage and the "mother" carries its young, isn't one or maybe two treatments enough?

has anybody used "polyfilter" to help remove the interceptor?

one other question, has anybody seen tiny brittle stars? while i was changing water i vacuumed up several "brittle stars" that were less than 1/2 inch total diameter with the body about one milimeter in diameter. the center was white and the 5 legs were translucent. i hope these are not bad as i must have thousands of them in my gravel.

rob

 

[Illusion]

Carbon as started will remove Interceptor very rapidly... I dont know about a polyfilter but I would just use carbon... Its soo wierd seeing all these people treat... It sucks to be loosing the acro crabs but I am sure before too long many wholesalers are going to be selling them... I dont see why they arent yet...

I have always just done 2 treatments... Since there is no larval stage doing 1 should be safe as long as you really nuke the tank... However I chose to do 2 treatments just to be safe...

James

 

[EricHugo]

I think I posted originally that this medication is coral safe but not reef safe. It really bothers me that so many deaths of affected species are been taken as acceptable losses. If you love your corals enough to save them from the parasite, then you should love them enough to take them out of the tank, rock and all if attached, and treat them in a separate vessel. We also have no idea of the effect of this drug on other microbial or microfaunal components that could significantly affect the functional ecology of the tank. If you have to break a coral, so what? ANyone who has prized corals or ones large enough that they are that firmly attached also knows hwo quickly they will heal, grow and reattach in the event that some breakage must occur. Also, let me reephasize the necessity of quarantine, and the necessityof using some sort of magnification to inspect colonies to ensure effective use of this otherwise wonderful parasticide.

 

[CarlaW]

I believe you also posted that you were going to do some follow up. How is that going?

 

[reedman]

Eric, wouldn't you have to remove all of your rock to ensure there is no small encrusting acro on a piece that you just missed. If you miss a small piece this would allow the red bugs to survive in the main tank. I understand the though behind removing the coral/rock to another container to treat and agee with it, but in my case there are small encrusting acro pieces on probably every rock in the tank.

Also, I agree with the QT idea (despite the fact that I don't have one). I am curious though...before someone posted a picture of these red bugs, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye about some small red dot. Who's to know what the next little critter is that is "detrimental" to our corals. Most folks that look at my tank have no clue that I have red bugs until I point them out. Mike didn't see them in his tank. I know of others that had no clue they were in their tank. It is easy in hindsight to say that we need to look closely for these known pests, but how do we prevent a total tank tear down when the next little beast comes up? I think there is a general paranoia about pests now and people are erradicating everything just in case. I'm waiting for the results of this action to be clear....I can just see it now..."Interceptor caused bleaching in all of my prized corals".

 

[mojoreef]

Eric personally no loss is acceptable, thats what made this call so tough. But to take out all my coral to treat would just be impossible. I have well over a hundred corals in my tank and to find a home for them to do this treatment would probibly result in more mortality then in doing it inplace.

I also agree on the quarranteen tanks for corals as well as fish. Right now with all the different form of parasites going around it would be stupid not to.


Mike

 

[NaH2O]

I also agree that no loss is acceptable - that includes corals, and I do understand the treatment isn't reef safe. The 'pod loss alone, is sad, let alone the other crustaceans. Fortunately for me, I haven't had to treat the tank. I took the care in removing an acro crab I had on an incoming colony that was infected with redbugs. Too bad the coral ended up RTNing during QT. The acro crab was added to the tank with the rest of the QTd corals. I am making sure to inspect every SPS I get in closely, and will have the QT ready when needed.

Today, I went by a local reefer's place to check out the major coral problems. The tank had been treated for redbugs in the past, so what could be the problem. All of the beautiful corals have either RTNed or were looking so horrible with bleached out areas it is amazing that they were still hanging in there. Then, I spotted some redbugs, and after looking closely at all the corals, they were everywhere...again - mostly surrounding areas of the bleaching. Turns out, there was one Acro introduced after the previous RB treatment, and the coral was carefully inspected - no redbugs were noticed. It only takes a couple to get into the tank, and create problems. I wonder if it is a matter of how many other stresses the corals have at time of infestation, to determine the severity of symptoms from redbugs. In a nicely balanced tank, the corals might be able to handle the infection and won't show some of the severe symptoms, that some others might see, if their tanks are more skewed towards a stressed coral environment.