Scooterman
Well-known member
The over the top is easy enough & will eventually cover with coralline!
Make sure to put a Tee before going down so you can Prime it
Make sure to put a Tee before going down so you can Prime it
Sequence Dart for closed loop
- Thread starter ronj
- Start date
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Scooterman
Well-known member
cool man! It will work out nice once you get it running!
i oredered this strainer for the intake..i saw it on this guys' tank in Alexandria..it looks way better than white pvc..here is the link..it is almost all the way at the bottom of the page(perforated pipe)
http://www.pondshop.com/catalog/filt.htm
http://www.pondshop.com/catalog/filt.htm
Krish
RF STAFF
Cool dude...You're lucky I was home:lol:
Haole
"Village Idiot"
Thanks for the explanation Scooter, and I understand the possible seepage issue but I could swear I’ve read where there’s a possibility that air can actually be “pulled in†creating a micro bubble problem, but for the life of me I can’t seem to find it.
Phew... Glad to hear that you came to your senses before your shopping spree Ron!
Phew... Glad to hear that you came to your senses before your shopping spree Ron!
Scooterman
Well-known member
Yea loc-line can suck in air, but it depends on how much pressure it is in I would guess because mine really doesn't!
davidabrown66
Dolphin
Hey Ron, I'm still having problems visualizing your plumbing set up. If you want, explain what your plans are for CL and overflow/return from sump setup are going to be so we can help with unnecessary head loss. Like:
CL:
pump output: 1 1/2"--1 1/2" union--1 1/2" Ball--barbed fitting to 1 1/2" flex--1 1/2" tee--
Tee'd outputs necked down to 1" at either end, each with barbed fittings--1" flex to each 1" barbed fitting on either end of manifold.
Manifold - 1" pvc around perim of tank, (6) 3/4" outputs. Draw out your manifold so you're not inadvertantly putting 2 nozzles too close together once you add loc lines, like at the corners of the tank. The loc lines can reach another 3-4 inches once they're in place.
No syphon breaks
For your sump:
Only minor flow needed here, maybe 10x water turnover would be fine. One return pump or two depending on your need for redundancy if one pump should fail. Return water would need a syphon break just below water surface. I use an Iwaki 40 RXLT on my 150, which is 1" then is tee'd into two 3/4" SCWD's. The SWCD's divide that into two more 3/4" returns for a total of 4 outputs located: two in the rear of the tank, and one each at either corner in the front of the tank. This provides random flow at the top. I've drilled (with a hole saw) the top of my tank at those 4 spots. The dimensions of the holes I drilled are the size of a threaded connector that would go between two threaded 3/4" 90 degree pvc fittings. So, the 90 deg pvc fits over the hole created, and only the thr fitting is inserted thru the new hole. The underside 90 deg fitting (now just just under the natural water line when water is flowing) is attached to the other end of the thr fitting creating a snug fit once tightened so my returns don't move, and I can direct the flow left or right. I attached the SCWD output to these fittings using vinyl pvc (I should've used flex instead, because vinyl is see-thru, and causes algae to accumulate).
So, when the tank drains I have four areas for water break the syphon, and I only drain about 1-2 gal of water back into the sump.
I hope this helps, but let us know your plans so we can give some input before you spend $200+ on plumbing that doesn't work in the end, or worse...a massive flood. :shock:
CL:
pump output: 1 1/2"--1 1/2" union--1 1/2" Ball--barbed fitting to 1 1/2" flex--1 1/2" tee--
Tee'd outputs necked down to 1" at either end, each with barbed fittings--1" flex to each 1" barbed fitting on either end of manifold.
Manifold - 1" pvc around perim of tank, (6) 3/4" outputs. Draw out your manifold so you're not inadvertantly putting 2 nozzles too close together once you add loc lines, like at the corners of the tank. The loc lines can reach another 3-4 inches once they're in place.
No syphon breaks
For your sump:
Only minor flow needed here, maybe 10x water turnover would be fine. One return pump or two depending on your need for redundancy if one pump should fail. Return water would need a syphon break just below water surface. I use an Iwaki 40 RXLT on my 150, which is 1" then is tee'd into two 3/4" SCWD's. The SWCD's divide that into two more 3/4" returns for a total of 4 outputs located: two in the rear of the tank, and one each at either corner in the front of the tank. This provides random flow at the top. I've drilled (with a hole saw) the top of my tank at those 4 spots. The dimensions of the holes I drilled are the size of a threaded connector that would go between two threaded 3/4" 90 degree pvc fittings. So, the 90 deg pvc fits over the hole created, and only the thr fitting is inserted thru the new hole. The underside 90 deg fitting (now just just under the natural water line when water is flowing) is attached to the other end of the thr fitting creating a snug fit once tightened so my returns don't move, and I can direct the flow left or right. I attached the SCWD output to these fittings using vinyl pvc (I should've used flex instead, because vinyl is see-thru, and causes algae to accumulate).
So, when the tank drains I have four areas for water break the syphon, and I only drain about 1-2 gal of water back into the sump.
I hope this helps, but let us know your plans so we can give some input before you spend $200+ on plumbing that doesn't work in the end, or worse...a massive flood. :shock:
I have the same question as Ron. I have a 120gl tank 60" (L) x 24" (H) x 18" (W) and it is a 3 sides viewable tank, so the narrow side attached to the wall.
The overflow is 7"(L) x 24" (H) x 12" (W). I have 2 Iwaki Mak4 for the sump return, 1 return for the 3/4 seaswirl and 1 for spraybar which is about 5' long. Inside the overflow, there are 4 3/4 flex pipe. Under the tank, I have 2 1 1/4" drain flex pipe to the sump and 2 3/4" for the return.
I don't see there is enough flow in my tank so I add a tunze 6000 and seio 620. 2 days ago, one of the Iwaki Mak4 stopped and I am thinking to replace 2 Iwaki with a sequence dart for efficience. I will run it with 1 1/2" inlet and 1 1/2" or 2" outlet then splite it with a Y to 2 3/4". If it is too much flow, I have a ball vale to lower the flow.
Do you think it will work?
Thanks
KC
The overflow is 7"(L) x 24" (H) x 12" (W). I have 2 Iwaki Mak4 for the sump return, 1 return for the 3/4 seaswirl and 1 for spraybar which is about 5' long. Inside the overflow, there are 4 3/4 flex pipe. Under the tank, I have 2 1 1/4" drain flex pipe to the sump and 2 3/4" for the return.
I don't see there is enough flow in my tank so I add a tunze 6000 and seio 620. 2 days ago, one of the Iwaki Mak4 stopped and I am thinking to replace 2 Iwaki with a sequence dart for efficience. I will run it with 1 1/2" inlet and 1 1/2" or 2" outlet then splite it with a Y to 2 3/4". If it is too much flow, I have a ball vale to lower the flow.
Do you think it will work?
Thanks
KC
KC, the intake has to have 2" plumbing for it to work right.......
also, David, i have decided not to have my intake in my sump...my bulkheads won't allow for the extra water flow to the sump......the manifold is going to have 1-1/2" plubing all the way around...the tee's that i got already have a reduced "tee", 1" for the output i think..they may be 1-1/4".. i am not sure....i need to know how to connect my flex pvc to the pump..what kind of fitting do i need to get???? also, i am debating on how many outlets to put on the manifold...i bought enough supplies for 8 outlets, but i may want to go with only 6.....instead of having 2 outlets in the front, i could have 1 outlet in the middle and just use a "y" to split my locline..the same applies to the back 2 outlets....
also, David, i have decided not to have my intake in my sump...my bulkheads won't allow for the extra water flow to the sump......the manifold is going to have 1-1/2" plubing all the way around...the tee's that i got already have a reduced "tee", 1" for the output i think..they may be 1-1/4".. i am not sure....i need to know how to connect my flex pvc to the pump..what kind of fitting do i need to get???? also, i am debating on how many outlets to put on the manifold...i bought enough supplies for 8 outlets, but i may want to go with only 6.....instead of having 2 outlets in the front, i could have 1 outlet in the middle and just use a "y" to split my locline..the same applies to the back 2 outlets....
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davidabrown66
Dolphin
KC - First things first, do you really want 3600 gal/hr running thru your sump?
Anyhoo, too much pump for (2) 3/4" outlets. You won't need a ball valve on the output side if you do that, b/c you're going to lose 50% of your water flow with that design.
If you try and discharge to (2) 3/4" outputs you'll only get about what you're getting now in terms of flow, and why spend the extra $ on pump and electricity (1.4 Amps).
Maybe replace Gen-X with an iwaki pump instead since you've already spent the $ on the Tunze...
If you're willing to change your design, I'm sure many folks would have ideas on how to use a Sequence Dart for your spray bar in a CL design.
-David
davidabrown66
Dolphin
Hey Ron, use lots of silicon on the barbed fittings, and then with the pump on the floor, insert as much of the hose onto the barb, and use your body weight to get it to go the rest of the way.
I would double check your pvc outputs on your manifold. You want a certain amount of flow per nozzles, and that's directly proportionate to the diameter and number of fittings used.
I use (6) 3/4" nozzles with a Barracude (4300 gal/hr), and that's perfect for a 4 ft tank. My manifold is 1" tee'd down to 3/4". You want to maintain about 600-800 gal/hr per 3/4" nozzle. If you have 1/2" nozzles you'll be in the 400 gal/hr range, but have many more. In other words, check to see that you are not using anything larger than 3/4", or it won't work the way you want it to, and you won't be able to use loc lines.
-David
i got some reducers so that i will be able to use the 3/4 locline....also, how many output fittings are you trying to say that i need to use...i am trying to decide between 6 and 8 outputs.....my manifold is 1-1/4" pipe... ................so i need barbed fittings for the flex??? i haven't seen any that big at Lowes..i will check Home Depot
Scooterman
Well-known member
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13728&d=1151284475
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13727&d=1151284464
That is the CL pump on my tank, the dart is the same pump motor just a smaller impeller.
Ok, the CL should be the same size as the outlet of the pump, I think 1 1/2" & your header should be that completely all the way around, I see you made 1 1/4" so that will reduce flow GPH some but won't hurt anything, your not talking much, unless the outlet is actually 1 1/4" mine is 1 1 /2".
With my 4200 Series (4200gph) It feeds a header, the same can be said for your over the top loop. You can put Tee's for each drop, & continue the header around the tank. At each Tee you can buy a reducer down to 3/4" with female threads, you buy Male 3/4 Loc-line adapters & from their you can either go with 3/4" into th tank, or do like I did & add the 3/4" to 1/2" "Y" adapter Loc-line & split each outlet. I experimented & that I found gave me the most coverage & not so much pressure as wide flow using the wide flairs! You don't need or want any barbs on a close loop, If you plan on keeping this think running a long time this is the cheapest way & more secured way of doing it. I used 4 of the 3/4" outlets with the "Y" inside 1/2", so that was 4 drops worked out great but in your case I would not go more than 6. The reason why I did it that way is & have that MBV that switches to the other side which also has 4 outlets but only one side at a time gets water, Add 6 & If you don't have enough flow you can always plug off one or two holes with a threaded plug, NP! Now all we need to do Is add your suction!
Next post!
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13727&d=1151284464
That is the CL pump on my tank, the dart is the same pump motor just a smaller impeller.
Ok, the CL should be the same size as the outlet of the pump, I think 1 1/2" & your header should be that completely all the way around, I see you made 1 1/4" so that will reduce flow GPH some but won't hurt anything, your not talking much, unless the outlet is actually 1 1/4" mine is 1 1 /2".
With my 4200 Series (4200gph) It feeds a header, the same can be said for your over the top loop. You can put Tee's for each drop, & continue the header around the tank. At each Tee you can buy a reducer down to 3/4" with female threads, you buy Male 3/4 Loc-line adapters & from their you can either go with 3/4" into th tank, or do like I did & add the 3/4" to 1/2" "Y" adapter Loc-line & split each outlet. I experimented & that I found gave me the most coverage & not so much pressure as wide flow using the wide flairs! You don't need or want any barbs on a close loop, If you plan on keeping this think running a long time this is the cheapest way & more secured way of doing it. I used 4 of the 3/4" outlets with the "Y" inside 1/2", so that was 4 drops worked out great but in your case I would not go more than 6. The reason why I did it that way is & have that MBV that switches to the other side which also has 4 outlets but only one side at a time gets water, Add 6 & If you don't have enough flow you can always plug off one or two holes with a threaded plug, NP! Now all we need to do Is add your suction!
Next post!
Scooterman
Well-known member
I used Isolating valves on the 2" suction & the 1 1/2" outlet to isolate the pump for cleaning etc. so far I needed it several times, just comes in handy but not necessary, also If you do this you will need a union on each to break it apart, also makes assembly easier, make sure to put the union after the ball valve, not before, or get a union ball valve which would be cheaper & take up less room. The 2" stuff is big, don't let that seem overwhelming, it will Rock once it is running! I found flex PVC at Lowe's 1 1/2" No 2", the 2" isn't common from what I found & all the local Pool companies don't use the stuff anymore, so the only other option would be on-line. Unless you have room issues You can hard PVC it & be done with it, you will need to dry fit & scream & curse a few times but It will work & once done it is done & should last! I used two 1 1/2" HD bulkheads about 10" apart vertically & used reducer adapters the went from the 1 1/2" Threaded BH to 2" glue PVC & from there all 2" to the pump suction! Mine in the photos isn't the best way but is turned out solid & the pump is so light the 2" PVC supports it easily, not that I would suggest doing it that way. If you look at the 2nd or third page in my showcase thread you should see all the fittings required for most of the suction from the back of the tank. I'll do my best to help or answer any question I can in the meantime.
i got 1-1/2" pvc for the manifold itself.........the 1-1/4 that i mentioned was the part of the tee that was reduced...actually, i think it ended up 1" at the reduced part...i am going to see if i can find a tee that reduces to 3/4 today..i talked to Don yesterday..he said they did exist, but were hard to find..i will return the others if i can find these..i am also worried about the location of the pump..i mayy not have enough room behind my tank for 2" plumbing....i may lose alot of flow, but i might have to install it on the side of my tank by the wall...i will measure everything later on today...thanks for the help!!!!!
Scooterman
Well-known member
You can use a regular 1 1/2" Tee & buy a slip on reducer the can reduce to a 3/4" threaded.
DonW
R.I.P.
Throw a couple of these on there. Just kidding but they are cool.
Don
Don
