Skimmer discussion thread
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DonW
R.I.P.
I may just get the swc when it comes out. My only concen is where the cup meets the skimmer. How does that seal? Do you know if they are prone to leaking? Looks like they just slip into an oring and bottom out on the flange?
Don
Don
They are just a push on like the msx/swc octo extreme's. Except the cone's are 1/4" acrylic instead of 1/8"
Skimmy
SKIM FU
i like it better because of the bubble ring warner marine uses, and the 20 turn gate valve will make it easier to make fine adjustments. and WM is the only company so far to machine a venturi instead of a reducer for the sicce psk 2500, that plus their new pin wheel put the sicce at 1200lph of air without the start up issues of mesh mod.
i copied this from a WM thread about the bubble ring to help explain why i like it so much:
VBT (Vertical Bubble Technology) aka The “Bubble Ring”
Warner Marine Research is now introducing the ultimate in turbulence reducing technology.
The Problem.
With the introduction of the “bubble plate”, we have seen turbulence levels inside Protein Skimmer bodies reduced and skimmate quality increased. However, the “bubble plate” is not a complete solution and not the best solution for reducing internal turbulence.
The typical “bubble plate” is situated in the lower quarter of the protein Skimmer body and is typically 70-100% of the Skimmer body diameter. The needle wheel pump injects the water and air mixture into the “bubble plate” chamber. The air/water mixture is propelled upwards out of the holes in the bubble plate. Because of buoyancy the bubbles will rise, but what does the water do? The water is pushed upwards near the neck and 100% of the water injected by the needle wheel pump drops back down and exits the Protein Skimmer through an output low in the body, frequently below the “bubble plate”. 100% of this water must pass along the inner body wall down around the edges of the “bubble plate”. The pathway of the processed water creates it's own turbulence as it flows from near the top of the body down the inner side walls and flows past the “bubble plate” toward the output fitting.
Effects of Turbulence
There are two different forms of turbulence produced by modern “bubble plate” technology.
1) Peripheral Expansion
The air/water mixture exiting the “bubble plate” rises and expands, pushing the water outwards towards the inner body walls where it drops down past the bubble plate to the output fitting.
2) Horizontal Shear
As the processed water flows downward, rushing past the edge of the bubble plate, water is deflected horizontally by the edge of the “bubble plate” (or riser extension or conical extension). This shearing flow interferes with the output of the bubble plate at it's extremities pushing the expanding air/water mixture towards the center of the skimmer body.
The Solution
We started with the goal of reducing inner body turbulence to maximize the capacity for air flow in a certain size body. The primary flaw in the “bubble plate” technology is the flow of water exclusively along the inner body wall past the bubble plate AND the horizontal turbulence caused by expansion and by shear flows.
The solution is simple yet elegant. We have designed and built an injecting technology that allows water to flow down to the output through the CENTER of the skimmer body. (utilizing one or more holes that pass through the bubble plate equalizing the pressure variance)
The Effect
The “Bubble Ring” effectively reduces outward and downward expansion turbulence in the upper and middle sections of the skimmer body. The “Bubble Ring” severely reduces horizontal shear turbulence across the face of the bubble plate area.
The effect is clearly and plainly visible in person. Apparent turbulence is reduced, the stability of the foam head is increased and the air/water mixture capacity of the body is increased. The skimmate will be more concentrated, dark and break-in time is reduced.
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Here is Jonathan Manke (Hanmeister? on RC) have to say about WM VBT
October 14, 2008 at 4:53 pm
"I dont get it myself. I agree a little bit with Concrete on this one… it could be considered an innovative distraction from the idea that it is a ‘cone clone’. Im not so sure what ‘horizontal component’ is being talked about here as far as the water movement is concerned… you are providing just another path for the water to drain out it seems to me. ATB’s use an acrylic ring around the top of the bubble plate… sort of like an ATI bubblemaster, just much less flow density. BK’s use a funnel over their bubble plate. These two methods prevent the water from moving ‘outwards’ really above the cone in any horizontal manner. It seems to me that a properly designed bubble plate wouldn’t have any problems with ‘horizontal water motion’ in the first place… the bubbles rise up and very shortly above the bubble plate they are stacking up against the cone. Not to mention… wouldnt that be a good thing? water from the middle would have to travel to the outside edge of the skimmer to get out, rather than have a ’shortcut’ through the center.
I bet that center tube ends up being a detritus trap… detritus that could have been trapped in the bubble column and put in the cup if it didnt have that extra escape path.
Dont go thinking that means I dont like it… I merely question the idea that the central ‘drain’ is really of any use, or that it might actually hurt performance more than help it. If you have too much horizontal motion in the cone… methinks you didn’t do something else right to start with. putting a cylinder around the bubble plate is a much more sensible way to prevent horizontal turbulence IMO. The cones also suffer from too much turbulence if you dont have enough air going into them… this causes you to raise the waterline, which means the bubbles and water have more room between the bubble plate and above the waterline to ’swirl around’. Trust me, my XL cone with 4000lph is actually much less turbulent than with only 2600lph of air because with only 2600lph, my waterline is that much higher."
I might tryout center return similar to VBT in my next build.
October 14, 2008 at 4:53 pm
"I dont get it myself. I agree a little bit with Concrete on this one… it could be considered an innovative distraction from the idea that it is a ‘cone clone’. Im not so sure what ‘horizontal component’ is being talked about here as far as the water movement is concerned… you are providing just another path for the water to drain out it seems to me. ATB’s use an acrylic ring around the top of the bubble plate… sort of like an ATI bubblemaster, just much less flow density. BK’s use a funnel over their bubble plate. These two methods prevent the water from moving ‘outwards’ really above the cone in any horizontal manner. It seems to me that a properly designed bubble plate wouldn’t have any problems with ‘horizontal water motion’ in the first place… the bubbles rise up and very shortly above the bubble plate they are stacking up against the cone. Not to mention… wouldnt that be a good thing? water from the middle would have to travel to the outside edge of the skimmer to get out, rather than have a ’shortcut’ through the center.
I bet that center tube ends up being a detritus trap… detritus that could have been trapped in the bubble column and put in the cup if it didnt have that extra escape path.
Dont go thinking that means I dont like it… I merely question the idea that the central ‘drain’ is really of any use, or that it might actually hurt performance more than help it. If you have too much horizontal motion in the cone… methinks you didn’t do something else right to start with. putting a cylinder around the bubble plate is a much more sensible way to prevent horizontal turbulence IMO. The cones also suffer from too much turbulence if you dont have enough air going into them… this causes you to raise the waterline, which means the bubbles and water have more room between the bubble plate and above the waterline to ’swirl around’. Trust me, my XL cone with 4000lph is actually much less turbulent than with only 2600lph of air because with only 2600lph, my waterline is that much higher."
I might tryout center return similar to VBT in my next build.
Ding ding ding. I'd agree with Jon as it looks like its going to collect detrius. And imo its not going to help or hamper performance. One could also make the argument the water is going to pass under the air and not mix so the reaction time will be less than a properly designed BP like the atb or swc's. But in all honesty, they should all work just fine. There is no sense in getting hung up on a few holes in the bp bottom.
Na, its plenty large to get your hand in there unless your an absolute monster. Now the wm is going to be very hard to get the detrius out of the bottom of the bp though. I'm sure you could stick a hose in there and get it.
roscoe
Well-known member
I have a question Luke or Skimmy. Which place would be the better choice to get the exteme skimmers Marine solutions or SWC? Is there much differnce with the 2 or are they virtually the same in every way?
roscoe
Well-known member
Thanks for the quick response Luke!!
Skimmy
SKIM FU
well, how bad could it be if hahnmeister is going to try it on his next build??? :idea:
besides, the proof is in the pudding, so we shall see
Skimmy
SKIM FU
show me a skimmer that doesnt collect detritus in the bottom...and if that's the only negative, then i'll be happy
Maxx
Staff Housemonkey
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 2,935
Mark, this is from the first page....Where did you obtain these numbers? I looked on the Deltec site and wasnt able to find anything about the lph reccomendations.
Nick
show me a skimmer that doesnt collect detritus in the bottom...and if that's the only negative, then i'll be happy
Here ya go man
http://store.seacorals.net/lecocuprskw1.html
Skimmy
SKIM FU
hey luke...not funny, that skimmer is my hero!!
