wierdness with RODI -need help

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Ohhhhhh... Ok, figured it must have been important.. dohhhhh.. :oops: :oops: :oops:

hmmm.. something else is screwey then if water shoudl be shooting out the waste. its definately coming out of the clean water line.

Matt- did you just find those on marine depot or somethign? maybe I should order a couple
 
Yeah, just found a picture of one on Marine Depot.

Have you traced your water lines to make sure they are connected to where they should be?
 
Now, I get 002 TDS readings, but no waste water and literally not much water at all..

WHATUHMINUTE...

there is something wrong with the prefilters... some of these you can put in backwards.

Even with the crappiest of membranes, you should still be getting waste water. Waste water goes over the membrane, not through it.

Something is hooked up wrong. Disconnect everyting but the membrane housing and run without any prefilters (just temporarily) and see what happens...

- Jeff
 
I think I would start by diagnosing th problem instead of guesing. "Even the crappiest of membrane, you should still be getting waste water" is not accurate. The flow channels on either side of the membrane are easilly plugged if your in a high tds area or on a well. Check the flow going to the membrane , do not remove the pre filter even temporarily. If you dont need a membrane and you have a well or high tds water you will trash your membrane quickly. You need around 60psi at the membrane inlet, if you have that your fine. You stated your flow restrictor may be plugged, this is not real common unless you have initial high tds. Verify this by pushing water throught the restrictor in reverse If you get flow, then your good. I assume you dont have a flush kit, so manually reverse the in/out lines on the membrane and watch the flow if it starts slow and speeds up or never speeds up then you definately have a plugged membrane. You can back flush a dirty membrane but you will not repair a plugged membrane. If you find that your membrane is shot then order up a new one along with a new restrictor rated for the membrane you purchase. Buying a $9 pressure gauge www.thefilterguys.biz will take the guesswork out of maintaining your rodi unit. This whole process should only take 10minutes and will show you what is wrong.

Don
 
I'm going to respectfully disagree with a few of the statements here...

The flow channels on either side of the membrane are easilly plugged if your in a high tds area or on a well.
Pre filters do not remove TDS, they remove undisolved solids, so the comment above makes no sense. Water should somehwhat flow relatively freely over the membrane unless you see severe build-up on the entry to the membrane.

High TDS won't screw the "flow/reject" side of the membrane, it does impact the water's ability to premeate the membrane to the "product" side.

If you dont need a membrane and you have a well or high tds water you will trash your membrane quickly.
Unless you are running dirt through your water lines (again, which dirt doesn't exactly fall under the term "TDS"), checking the flow without a sediment filter will do very little damage to membrane (and even then, its ability to make product, not waste - unless like I said you have dirt in your lines) if all you do run it for a few minutes - long enough to verify that the pre-filters are not your problem.

Over the last 15 years, I've had my fair share of RO troubleshooting: My current RO is a 50GPD on a well system with high TDS and the last time I changed the membrane was almost 5 years ago. I still get good water quality and good production with this membrane. Whenever production slows I replace the pre-filter (el-cheapo fridge filter) - and about ever other year I run some H202 through it.

A pressure gage won't do anything but verify your tap pressure and if you place it on the south (reject) side of the membrane you will have to block all of the flow and stop flow (it's the flow across the membrane that creates the osmotic effect) - otherwise if you don't stop the flow you won't read any pressure at all.

Based on you not getting any reject water, my assumption is:
1) The prefilters are connected incorrectly, or
2) The restrictor is blocked (unlikely - as whatever is blocking it would have to pass through the outer layer of the membrane to get there), or
3) The entrance to the membrane is clogged.

What I would do:
1) Verify that water flows through the unit without the prefilters.
2) Doublecheck the flow restrictor.

If neither of these work, try cleaning the membrane with H202. If that doesn't work, buy a new membrane.

So - my last word on this topic - after all, all of the various advice your getting may or may not be worth the price you are paying to get it :lol:

- Jeff
 
Jeff,
Its called membrane scaling and removing the carbon block will allow chloramine into the membrane and destroy it. Just that plain and simple.

Don
 
It's only plain and simple if he is on a city water ;)

AND - that is a missing data point (for both of us) - is he on a well or City water. I've been on a well so long I sometimes forget about chlor/amines... :p
 
He is on city water....

That was my assumption, better safe than sorry. If the restrictor is plugged its a pretty good bet that the membrane and restrictor is scaled especially with a tds that high. Hard water is tough on membranes especially ones that have been stored.

Don
 
Hey gang - update -- still need your input..

My new 75 gpd membrane arrived today from the filterguys - good group of people by the way - was very impressed with their customer service.

I also ordered up an inline dual TDS meter, membrane flush kit (although I still need to modify the flow restrictor b/c it didn't come with one), and a RO bypass valve kit for making RO drinking water.

I hooked everything all together, fired it up, and I literally have a steady stream of pressurized water shooting out of the outlet and have waste water too (but the waste os still at a pretty minimum level). The unit and membrane are rated for 75 gpd, but I'm not kidding, it is literally more like 50 gallons per hr (yep I said it - per hour). It is coming out at a measurement of 00 to 02 ppm TDS reading too (I know b/c I double checked with a friends TDS meter because I couldn't beleive it)

It just seems crazy how much water is coming out of this thing and how little waste water is being producing. I only let it run for 2-3 minutes b/c I didn't want to burn something out if something is wrong.

my tap water TDS reading is only 36 ppm, which is pretty darn clean to begin with if you ask me. I've also got it hooked up to the main line of the house which is 60 psi, so I know there is good pressure.

Could this really be how it is? is it this good and this fast, or is somethign wrong?

I went from drip... drip...... drip too a gardeen hose in no time. Do you think the flow restrictor could be screwing things up because it's not letting enough/too much water through the drain pipe?
 
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Not sure Ben, Sounds weird. Not sure what the problem would be but you should have TDS reading of 0 with a new membrane and a input TDS of 36.

Anyway.. ^^^^^^^^ up to the top..
 
If the restrictor is not for a 75gpd unit then its the wrong one. I'd just order one from the filter guys.

Don
 
yep- better safe than sorry. I didn't see one on their website, but will e-mail them and see if they can hook me up.

Those filter guys are awesome by the way. I got printed color directions with everything I ordered and it arrived at my house in record time.

I'm also going to try to explain to them what I'm gonig through and I see if they have any other potential ideas.
 
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Something sounds not right, have you tried to flush the entire system, maybe back flush it? This system worked fine before?
 
yep- better safe than sorry. I didn't see one on their website, but will e-mail them and see if they can hook me up.

Those filter guys are awesome by the way. I got printed color directions with everything I ordered and it arrived at my house in record time.

I'm also going to try to explain to them what I'm gonig through and I see if they have any other potential ideas.


They are on the site. It wont look like yours, just take yours out. The new one will just go in the waste line with with quick disconnects. I think their only like $5.

Don
 
Hey guys - I wrote filterguys today, directed him to this post, and asked for a diagnosis and some help recomending a good handheld TDS meter and the price on a flow restrictor. I got a reply a couple hrs later - pretty awesome if you ask me. It sounds like they really know their stuff:

Here is Jim's reply,

"OK I read the post and your membrane was bad but you figured that out. The flow restrictors are on our membrane page $6. You need a flow restrictor and the kind you had are the worst. Once you get a new one go over the drawings and just be sure your plumbed right you should be able to produce about two gallons of pure DI water per hour. For handheld TDS meters the HM3 is the best. Oh by the way with 60 psi you do not need a booster pump.
Jim
http://www.thefilterguys.biz"

Anywho, good info up there about production and pressure. I ordered up a new flow restrictor- that big beefy kind, a new handheld TDS meter, some frag glue and some tweasers (those last two were just for fun :D ). They should arrive next week sometime and I'll give the new restrictor a try.

also, I'll be looking tomorrow to try to figure out if this is plumbed right.

I'll keep ya updated.

Thanks everyone for your help!!!
 
Update:

Took it all apart this weekend to make sure it was plumbed right.. it looks like it is.

I did a test to see how fast I could make 5 gallons of RODI water - it took 6 minutes exactly, which means I really am producing 50 gallons per hour when I should be producing 75 gallons per day. Scary. somethings not right obviously.

After I turn it on, the TDS meter reads 00 after about 5 seconds, which is good. However, I've started to noice that my DI cartridge starting to turn amber up quickly.

We'll see what the new flow restrictor does when it arrives from the filterguys.

Now I'm starting to think that I don't have the right type of prefilters in before the membrane.
 
Sounds like your bypassing the restrictor, so basically your just filtering with the pre-filters & the Di, skipping the membrane, that flow restrictor has to be before the RO & IN-line facing it the right way upstream. Once you get that you should be ok! Other than your using up your DI that it!
 
yeah, I agree with Scooty. Sounds like you are using your DI resin to filter. What is your TDS before the DI resin?
 
Sounds like your bypassing the restrictor, so basically your just filtering with the pre-filters & the Di, skipping the membrane, that flow restrictor has to be before the RO & IN-line facing it the right way upstream. Once you get that you should be ok! Other than your using up your DI that it!


Hu! The flow restrictor goes on the waste line before it goes to the sewer.

Don
 
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