wierdness with RODI -need help

[mattseattle]

good catch - otherwise the pressure to the membrane would not be great enough.

 

[Scooterman]

Oh yea sorry, Down stream of the RO unit!

 

[class clown]

OK from start to begining, on my system, the flow should go... --> 1 micron sediment --> 1 micron carbon ---> RO** ----> then DI before going out the good water port, right?

**bad water expelled out the back of the RO unit, where a 75 GPD flow restricor should be installed.

Take a look at these pictures - can you tell me if the far left really is a 1 mic sed, the middle really a 1 micron carbon? I would have thought the middle one (I would have thought the 1 mic carbon would have been black color)

I know the RO is up top, I know the DI is last(far right), but do those first two look right?

all three:

middle filter (1 mic carbon supposedly), and DI on right- notice DI starting to amber up already...

close up of far left filter = supposedly 1 mic sed

 

[class clown]

yeah, I agree with Scooty. Sounds like you are using your DI resin to filter. What is your TDS before the DI resin?

I'll check the TDS before the DI resin.. don't have that yet, but was thinking about switching it to there anyway now that I have the drinkig water add on.

I know the TDS before it hits the system is about 26-36. It comes out in the end at 00 TDS reading after about 30 seconds of being on.

to confirm, my 75 GPD flow restrictor is on waste line after the RO unit.

Boy - when we figure this out, it is going to feel so good

 

[class clown]

more photos here of the RO system, just in case it helps.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82367204@N00/

let me know if you need close ups of anything, I'm more than willing to run down and take photos.

I appreciate the help

Ben

 

[taekwondodo]

Hu! The flow restrictor goes on the waste line before it goes to the sewer.

Don

Gang - something is wrong here, And I'm now thinking "membrane" (or O-rings around the physical unit somewhere).

The flow restrictor is on the waste side. If he is getting 50GPH (instead of GPD) out of the product output, the restrictor shouldn't have anything to do with the output increasing (within reason).

If he significantly increased the flow through the unit by having a less restricting restrictor, he won't have an increase in product water - but a decrease...(less pressure). And if he plugged the output (don't do it, just an example) he's still not going to get more than 60PSI which isn't going to drive more than 50GPD (not GPH)...

It's leaking internally somewhere.

- Jeff

 

[class clown]

DOing some more research.. filterguys have this on their site..

$35.00 - TWO FILTER PACKAGE PLUS DI
1 POLY SEDIMENT FILTER - 5 MICRON
1 MATRIKX CR1 CARBON BLOCK FILTER
1 FILLED COLOR CHANGING DI CARTRIDGE REFILLABLE
View attachment 17100

that at least calms my fears about having a white colored 1 sed carbon filter

 

[class clown]

Gang - something is wrong here, And I'm now thinking "membrane" (or O-rings around the physical unit somewhere).

The flow restrictor is on the waste side. If he is getting 50GPH (instead of GPD) out of the product output, the restrictor shouldn't have anything to do with the output increasing (within reason).

If he significantly increased the flow through the unit by having a less restricting restrictor, he won't have an increase in product water - but a decrease...(less pressure). And if he plugged the output (don't do it, just an example) he's still not going to get more than 60PSI which isn't going to drive more than 50GPD (not GPH)...

It's leaking internally somewhere.

- Jeff

You know.. that's what i'm starting to think- leaking internally somewhere.. Like maybe it is jumping or skipping the first couple filters or something somehow, or maybe even the membrane, and gonig straight to the DI.. I dunno - how do I check for something like that? Any pointers? I could take it all apart again, but not exactly sure what I'm looking for.

I can see that the canisters visably are filing up with water. I have the filters as snug as they can be, but the theory seems to make sense - maybe once there is enough pressure, it skips/leaks somehow to the next stage.

thoughts?

 

[taekwondodo]

You know.. that's what i'm starting to think- leaking internally somewhere.. Like maybe it is jumping or skipping the first couple filters or something somehow, or maybe even the membrane, and gonig straight to the DI.. I dunno - how do I check for something like that? Any pointers? I could take it all apart again, but not exactly sure what I'm looking for.

I can see that the canisters visably are filing up with water. I have the filters as snug as they can be, but the theory seems to make sense - maybe once there is enough pressure, it skips/leaks somehow to the next stage.

thoughts?

Forget the cannisters - that's not where the problem is. 100% of the H20 in=100% out on the cannisters (ok, 99.99%).

Each "block" of this circuit performs a function (for 1000s of gallons of water) - the block that is obviously having the problem is the RO "Block" of this system itself...

No one likes my recommendation to remove everything from the loop but the RO unit itself... if even just for a few minutes...

So: If I was to simplify things and keep carbon in the loop, I would simplify it all down to:

Source - > Carbon - > RO unit -> Waste (w/Restrictor)
. |_> Product

if I got more product than expected, then there is a problem internally to the unit itself - a bad membrane (rare) or a bad o-ring (more likely).

- Jeff

 

[class clown]

if I got more product than expected, then there is a problem internally to the unit itself - a bad membrane (rare) or a bad o-ring (more likely).

- Jeff

Jeff- the membrane is brand new- just came in the mail in a sealed package last week, so I'm like 99% confident it's good. When you say bad 0-ring, where do I look for this o--ring... is it an oring on the membrane itself?

I can take apart the RO unit and show you what I'm working with if that helps. let me know. thx

 

[taekwondodo]

there are two places the membrane seals against the RO unit's container - at the front of the membrane (input side) there is a rubber "lip" around the membrane itself. Make sure this is not torn.

At the "south" side of the membrane there is a couple (I think, recalling from memory as I am at work right now) of small o-rings at the other end of the membrane - on the ~3/8" PVC piece that fits into the output port of the housing for the product water.

And while rare, it could be a bad new membrane...

 

[DonW]

It wont work without the restrictor. No restrictor your just flushing all the water through the membrane. To much restrictor your just pushing dirty water out the clean hole. Not enough restrictor the membrane wont work and the goes out the dirty hole. Wait for your restictor to come in the mail and save your di media.

Don

 

[mattseattle]

my carbon filter looks just like yours. it's in a white casing.....so no worries there. some are white some are black.

 

[Scooterman]

I agree with Don, wait for the right part, you need that restrictor otherwise your wasting the other filters quickly.

 

[class clown]

Just for clarification, I have a new restrictor installed- its the one from marinedepot, an internal one, supposedly rated for 75-100 gallons. see link here: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RO1215

I have ordered up another new one- this time one of the really good one's from filterguys. It'll arrive likely later this wek.

Don/Scooty- could it really make that much of a difference? I mean, we are talking 50gph here with brand new inline cheapy restrictor installed. Admitedly so, I'm a novice at these things, but just seems like the cheapy wouldn't be doing such a terrible job that it would make this much of a difference would it?

wouldn't an internal leak somewhere make more sense?

 

[DonW]

Just for clarification, I have a new restrictor installed- its the one from marinedepot, an internal one, supposedly rated for 75-100 gallons. see link here: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RO1215

I have ordered up another new one- this time one of the really good one's from filterguys. It'll arrive likely later this wek.

Don- could it really make that much of a difference? I mean, we are talking 50gph here with restrictor installed. Admitedly so, I'm a novice at these things, but just seems like too much of a difference here.

No if you have a working restrictor your membrane is just bypassing. If not then not. It was my understanding that you did not have the restrictor rated for the membrane. If its the right one then you should be good assuming you did not cut the new membrane seals.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt as to wether or not the seals were cut during installation.

Don

 

[class clown]

Ok - cut seals is the hypothesis I'll run with. Let me do some careful inspecting tonight and I'll report back.

Thanks everyone for continuing to tag onto this thread and help me out.. Truly, greatly appreciated!

 

[class clown]

PROBLEM SOLVED....

first off, before I tell you what the problem was, I wanted to thank everyone for their input. You've been a big help and I probably would have just given up if I didn't have you throwing out ideas. So thanks for sticking with me.. I mean it....thanks

Now I am posting the solution for two reasons 1) so you can laugh and joke at my expense 2) In case it helps someone else from ripping their entire system apart searching for an answer


solution:
Although I said it was hooked up right, and I double checked it apparently, I had the darn waste water hose and the good water hose cris-crossed - as a result I was shooting junk water into my DI resin chamber causing it to amber up fast. I found out because I did some reasearch on the internet and found this illustration.

on the output side of the membrane (the one with two openings). The good water comes out the tube in the middle and the junk water comes out the tube on the side. I had them reversed and had the flow restrictor on the good water side which was going to the junk.. And I had the waste water going right into my DI cartridge.

So - laugh it up.. ha ha ha..:lol: :lol: :lol: and while your at it, let me know if you think I should get a new DI cartridge based on the color. Is it amber enough to warrant a new one?

Now that it is hooked up correctly, I have 00 TDS water coming out of the RO unit into the DI chamber, and 00 coming out of the DI chamber.

 

[class clown]

Ok.. and last question.. what's a normal waste water output? it seems like I have more waste water coming out than good water. Sorry to sound like such an amatuer with these things, but is this considered normal?

 

[mattseattle]

4:1 is normal ratio - 4 waste to 1 gallon good...but that could change depending on temperature, pressure and tds.

glad you got it fixed.... it's usually always something simple but you have to find it.

as far as replacing the DI media if you are getting 0 out of it then I would not change it.