ZEOvit

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I don't think you're arguing with me. It's just a discussion and I could be wrong. I'll throw out my initial thoughts when reading their web page. We can discuss any of the points, this is just my initial reaction.

how would i achive the same results... heavy skimming, running carbon, uv sterilizer, phosban reactor, water changes

BINGO!!! But you also need to make sure that you are using RO/DI water, need to not use flake food or other food additives. Only feed blender mush and soak all ingredients prior to making the mush in RO/DI water for a couple of hours to absorb all of the polyphosphates off of the surface and out of the tissues of the seafood. Keep your protein skimmer in tip top condition at all times.

ZEOstart accelerates the cycling process
If this product is really accelerating the cycle, then it is nothing more than bottled nitrifying bacteria. There are lots of other brands of this too. However, I think they are a waste. We get airborn bacteria for free. The lifespans of most Nitrifying bacteria is less than 24 hours. How do they keep this bacteria alive in a bottle unless there is some food source of some sort in the bottle too? Buy a shrimp at the grocery store for 35 cents to kick off the bacteria growth.

ZEObak contains various types of bacteria and when used in combination with ZEOfood, corals are able to take up the planktonic bacteria
Yet more bacteria. Yawn. If you have cycled your tank, you have plenty of bacteria coating every surface in your tank and many species are motile and live in the water column. There's plenty there for the coral. However, that's not that big of a deal to me either. They get most of their food from photosynthesis of the zoox that live in them.
ZEOfood increases bacterial growth that supplies corals with all necessary elements for healthy growth.
If this provides food for bacteria, then it is a nutrient of some sort. Keeping nutrients out of a tank is what our goal is. The bacteria population is always in flux. If you provide excess food temporarily, all you will have is bacteria starvation in the next 24 hours.

I suspect the Carbon is a low Phosphate variety. That is important always. See this thread

The Potassium Iodide is no different than Lugol's solution. Iodine and the Reef Tank If you use this product, please make sure you buy a test kit. Willy-nilly dosing of Iodine can nuke a tank.
I have no idea what the Zeospur is.

Get rid of the power filter. Instead, I would buy 1 One Micron Filter Bag FB1 for $5.75 and three FB5's for $5.55 each. Leave the FB5s on for a 2 or 3 days, then switch them out for a clean one. Rinse off the filter bags and reuse them. Once per week, put the 1 micron bag on for 24 hours. Spend those savings on livestock and $35 on a Phosban Reactor for the Rowaphos.

Phosphates naturally adsorb onto Iron. They are adding Iron, letting it get covered with Phosphates (and organics) and then skimming it out. Salifert also makes a liquid Phosphate remover. The Phosban reactor will do the same thing.

Phosguard is an aluminuasilicate based zeolite. Nitrate Sponge is a also a zeolite. Kitty litter is a clay based zeolite. There are lots on natural ones and a bunch of man-made ones.They operate on viscous entrainment and Van der Waals forces just like Granular Activated Carbon. The major difference is that zeolites can also act as a molecular sieve, ie the pore and channel sizes are uniform allowing molecules to be sieved according to size. GAC has randomly shaped pores and sizes. Viscous Entrainment and Van der Waals forces are described on this thread.

This is JMO. I think they took a couple of zeolites that we know work in our tanks, albeit slowly, put them together and then developed a "system" that is unneeded. Don't put Phosphates in your tank and remove them as much as possible with proven methods. Don't overfeed your fish so the nitrates stay low. Skim the water well to remove nutrients and detritus before it breaks down. Don't use Phosphate laden commercial fish foods or coral foods. Soak the P out with RO/DI water. Use filter bags to remove detritus too. Again, this is JMO.

If you give it a go, make sure you check back with us to tell us your results.
 
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Great post Curt...whats really funny to me is after that easy to read, yet informative chemistry session is your signature.."Village Idiot, NPIC "
uh, huh....surrrrrre ya are......
BR,
To go along w/ what Curt is saying, you can spend money on adding things to fix a problem, or you can fix the problem. Nobody argues that buying a skimmer is bad for a reef tank, specifically an SPS tank. So why not buy a good one or preferably a good large one, and have it do an awesome job in your tank. Limit the Nutrients to the tank, and you'll have less to take out later, (please note I'm not saying starve your fish....just follow the food rinsing guidelines that Curt and Nikki mentioned previously), good flow, turkey basting/powerhead over the rockwork to blow all the detritus that collects in there up and out so the skimmer can get to it, will alleviate alot of crap. Frequent water changes are also good IMO....again different folks feel otherwise....
UV...good idea, not a requirement for a reef tank....I dont think it hurts, but I dont think its necessary either....I know that there are several people out there who swear by them.....cool for them....I'm not against it, I just havent had an issue that required one yet...when I do, I'm sure I'll become one of the faithful....
Refugiums.......If ya really wannna grow pods, ya dont need the plants to do it.....liverock rubble in the sump/refugium will do it just fine, and then ya dont have to worry about poisons/toxins or going sexual etc.....
I guess the bottom line IMO, is that there are many ways to do things, and its your money, you're certainly welcome to spend it how you want...
But after lots of discussions here, other boards and phone calls to Curt, Nikki, and Mike......I feel that I've learned a lot and can accomplish what I want w/o spending my money on things to compensate for a problem, and would prefer to instead fix the problem.....
To steal a line from Golfnut, (Manufacturer of the Oceans Motions wavemaker thingy...) "Its great that some soap will remove the ring-around-your-collar, but why not just wash your neck?"
Nick
 
thank you for the reading curt. i got alot of good info from that, phosphate removal is my weak spot, i hate reading bout however i know what i want this tank to look like so i know i need to figure out a plan to BEST remove these... on a few other board people have been having trouble with phosban reactor. jb stated as well as a few other hat everytime he changes the media he has some small colonies and frags die.. if i were to go that way, would you recomend using a smaller dosage?
 
maxx said:
But after lots of discussions here, other boards and phone calls to Curt, Nikki, and Mike......I feel that I've learned a lot and can accomplish what I want w/o spending my money on things to compensate for a problem, and would prefer to instead fix the problem.....

Nick
like i stated earlier, this tank isnt even up n running yet, i am trying to figure out a way where i wont have to deal with certain problems from the start. im not fixing a problem, im avoiding a problem....upgraded skimmer already was in the works before i started reaserching zeovit. i plan n running a skimmer rated for atleast 30%bigger than my tank volume.

ive never had ich outbreak so uv well it doesnt seem nessacary, from day 1 ive never had a fish die due to a parisite.

i personally havent seen a tank with my own eyes which uses zeovit. i cant say that what i have seen is a hoax. but i tend to take things as i see em, and my oh my they look great.. on the other hand all these methods were once thought a waste as well, and some are... (LIKE DSB'S).. but i appreciate everyones thoughts, im still torn... can anyone please tell me more about this phosphate reactor
 
Great post Maxx!!! Especially on the importance of keeping that rock clean.

"Its great that some soap will remove the ring-around-your-collar, but why not just wash your neck?"
LOL!!!

There are a number of theories on the Phosban Reactors on this thread.

I've not had problems with Rowaphos or Phosban. There are a number of interesting theories on that thread and some sound advice....don't let any of it get into your tank. Nikki even has a filtersock over her return to make sure that none of it goes into the tank.
 
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i just was reading that thread lots of great info...
nikki could you please post a pic of your p reactor for me.... so i can get an idea of just how big a "sock" your usin
 
I think she is just using one of those little media bags people put carbon in instead of a huge bag filter like I gave you links to.
 
im glad chuck and mike dont give weekly quizes

Hmmm.....I could arrange that...sounds like a great idea! ;)

Wow, a lot of good information provided here, and Curt beat me to the link on Phosphate Reactors. On my fluidized reactor, I am using the sock/bag that came with the Rowaphos media....nothing too fancy. It is zip tied on there until I change the media, then I will put a new one on.

One thing I wanted to mention about one of the ZEOvit claims, which I'm not disputing. If I remember correctly, the site says you see an increase in dark skimmate after using the products. Well, of course you would....you are adding iron to bind with Phosphates, in order to skim out, is this not so? The result would be an increase of skimmate production - not to mention all the other additives you are introducing that your skimmer is going to try and get rid of. Don't they have a coral food, too? (alright - it has been a long evening for me, and I'm going off memory) - Why do you want to feed SPS, when they gain most of their food from light, fish waste, and detritus?

Anyway, just adding some points.....I'll get that quiz together for ya ;)
 
I do think the zoevit system will work but if we as reef keepers pick up routines water changes ,testing and doing what we should do or tanks will improve and yes I have seen and I do have sps in my tank that are 2 inches thick
 
hmmm....just a different means to an end, it sounds like to me....

MikeS
 
Hi all, I've read this thread with interest & there's have been many good points made by various posters. Having used the ZEOvit system longer than anybody else in the US, I thought some here would be interested in my observations:ZEOvit enables one to achieve lower nutrients than is possible with just vigorous tank husbandry. Skimmer production initially was very productive & as the nutrients are depleted, this has leveled off. The water is crystal-clear, much clearer than when 03 was on board. Acropora, & other SPS have become very colorful with phenomenal growth over the 4mos on this system[BTW, I should add I have kept SW aquariums for 32yrs & SPS 15yrs, not bragging here, just wanted to give you all some skill level qualifications]. The LR reefscape has remained completely algae-free & pleasant to view as has the tank panels. The downside is the initial start-up cost, but maintenance costs should not be a factor for ones trying to sustain Acroporids & who enjoy that challenge. I believe within a year or so, most SPS-keepers will be using this method. Bob
 
Hello Bob,
Can you give a lesson on each step you took to run productively please? For Example if you were wanting to convert a 90 gallon tank.
Thanks in Advance
Ed
 
Hi Ed, let me start with a brief overview of ZEOvit. It is a bacterial-driven method, using zeolites within a canister filter, seed & feed components, efficient skimming, passive carbon, & 5%WC's/wk. The zeolites probably absorb some ammonia from the N-cycle but mainly function by producing metal-P04's which are easily skimmable, & host the bacteria. The zeo-components seed/feed the zeolites & system with appropriate specific bacteria to carry-out pokey-man like reduction in N03's/P04's. For your system, I need to know your exact water vol minus LR, etc. IOW, your net water gallonage. I also need your tank parmeters & nutrient tests. With that I can make recommendations. Let me say, I have been forunate to be able to correspond with Alexander Girz who has been using this system for 3+ yrs. & who is considered next to the inventor of ZEOvit, Thomas Pohl, the most experienced & knowledgeable person on this system. Bob
 
And by the way... its not expensive :) The Grotech Reactor is, but you can have someone custom make it. Its a simple device.

The basic 4 items you need are Zeobac, Zeofood, ZeoStart & Zeovit (Zeolith rocks). All the other items T Pohl sells are for fine tuning the color of your corals. When you are at low nutrient, this is possible as you are at the lowest layer of the zooxanthalle (some corals take longer to get to this level). Dark corals have tons of these layers (high nutrients), but with Zeovit, the goal is to get to the bottom, just as if it came straight from the ocean.

There's a regular maintenance with running Zeovit, but after a while, its a simple procedure once you get the hang of it.
 
Ok, this is a old test before I removed the Sandbed. But I have a 90 AGA, I have about 170 Lbs of LR. My Oxygen is 7.2, My Calcium is 434, My Strotium is 7(needed to add). My Iodion is safe, My Boron was 2.75 (needed to add) My Organics were 3, My phosphates were .025(must have been before skimmer). Nitrates were 48, Trace of Nitrites, trace of Amonia, silica-trace, Alkalinity-3.15, My PH is 8.1, My Magnesium was low 1175(needs to be 1400) Minerals-2. I have about 60 gallons in the whole system.

I am a sponge....I want to learn more...
Thanks in Advance :)
Ed
 
Thnx. Edward[Invincible], & plz. help out on this. Ed, these amts. are based on a 70g net system. BTW, did I read your N03's correctly at 48? You'll also need to read the ZEOvit guide, written by Alexander Girz for detailed information & function of the system at [email protected] Zeolites--1/2liters:Zeobak[micro-organism sol.]--3drops daily x2wks, then 3drops 2x/wk; Zeofood[combination bact.+ food]--3drops dailyx2wks. then 3drops 2x/wk;Zeostart[bact. food]--3ml dailyx2wks, then 3ml 2x/wk; Carbon--3/4Cup, to be changed monthly. I recommend running zeolite thru a canister filter @ 70-100g/hr.This water flow is alternated with intervals of 3hrs. on/3hrs.off cycles. ZEOvit has a customized filter canister for this use as it contains a handle at the top & is attached to a perforated disc at the bottom. This allows for the zeolites to be pushed up & down cleaning detritus[duff] from the stones. This is done about 10-15 repetitions daily. As Edward has pointed out there are some DIY's available at a lesser cost. Old P04 Rx can be used but these make cleaning the zeolites time-consuming. The zeolites are changed out every 6-8wks. Try to optimize fish-feeding on nutrient import ie. I decreased my fish-feedings from 2x/day to once every other day. Within 3wks. of running ZEOvit, my Saliferts showed no color. Now, Ed, your nutrients are much higher than where I started, so you should reach zero-nutrients at 8wks. No other tank husbandry is necessary outside of minimizing fish-feedings. If you decide to use ZEOvit, contact Gary Madl at the above address for supplies/prices/information. Bob
 
Ok so someone tell me what the story is on this system. How does it work and what is the advantage of using it??

Thanks


mike
 
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