ZEOvit

[zeltar]

So how would one go about using this on a tank that has yet to have water in it?

 

[bobgoode]

zeltar, ZEOvit will work easily in a non-cycled, new tank. The instruction guide specifically allocates dosing in those instances. With this system, one does not rely on LR/LS for biological filtration, & in fact can be operated with or without these biological aids. Bob

 

[reiple]

excellent info curt. So I completely strip my system. My main problem is water top off. Too much silicates. I use filtered not RO/DI nowadays. I need to replace the busted RO/DI but don't have the funds now.
I am now wet skimming to remove furthur. Any more ideas (besides even frequent water change. I am doing 2x a month 20%. Maybe go weekly with 10% instread?)

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Bob missed you at Macna . It would been great to finally meet ya. I did what you said and met with the fellow that was importing the Zoefit product, I believe his nam was Phrol?? We sat and talked for about an hour about it, but my friend I am still confussed about the over all concept here, The discussion was a little different from what I have heard here, do any of you folks that are running with this have a detailed concpet here??
When alking to the above mentioned fellow, I got a pretty good idea on using the zeolites as a sponge for nutrients, (although he said it was only nitrogen based products and not P) but beyond that he had no info or concepts on the balance of the different dosing products??

Fill me in


Mike

 

[bobgoode]

Hi Mike, sounds like MACNA experienced some problems Apparently your German is good because Thomas Pohl is not affluent in English. Mike, really based on my posts & Big-t's link to the ZEOvit guide, p.4 of this thread which contains all the know-how stuff, there's not much more to explain regarding the use/function of the ZEOvit. I'm more than happy to try to answer specific Q's as I understand them. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Apparently your German is good because Thomas Pohl is not affluent in English

I understand a bit, but he wasnt that bad at english. Some stuff may have been lost though. Ok this is what he told me.
The concept was that the zeolite stones remove amonia and ammonium, but not Phosphates. With the addition of the rocks and the bacteria to populate them, you end up reducing N nutrients through both absorbtion and reduction. Which I would have to go along with. From thier he said that you lift the holder in the reactor unit and it lets all the end product out of it and feeds the corals and makes it available for a good skimmer to remove. I would perfer to remove that end product directly but I will buy the concept. In that part of the system he also mentioned replenishing the bacterial population by the occasional dosing of fresh culture. Not sure about that one, the population should become self sustaining no?? Also he talked about another additive for feeding the bacteria in the rocks, I am kinda lost on this one, is it to maintain divercity?? or population?? so need help on that one.
From thier he got into the balance of what I believe was about 5 or 6 other additives, ranging from iron to other things (not sure what they are as the contents were unknown to him) I spent alot of time questioning him on this but his only answer was it is a collection of additives that when they added them over the years had some kind of responce in thier tanks. Is thier anything deeper you can tell me about them?? .
My first impression of the product is that it is basically a two ended system. The front end seems to be a form of nutrient removal, and the back end a variety of additives. It would be nice to know a little more about the back end.

thanks buddy

Mike

 

[bobgoode]

:lol: That's the 64K dollar question. First off, believe me, Thomas knows exactly what each components composition & their specific functions. I mean, he created the system & reproduces the components for use. I also think he's wary of telling all that interacts in his system. You can understand. The seed & feed components facilitate appropriate bacteria over non-specific ones. The high speed flow thru the zeo-filter provide sufficient high affinity [steeper ammonium gradient]in seawater to remove ammonia much more completely....this allows those bacteria to catch tightly dissolved inorganic nutrients. As inorganic nutrients concentrations are quite low in zeovit[zeolite] tanks, the tissue specific zooxanthellae density is low as well. Thus, the zooxphotosynethetic pigments do not interfere with the host chromoproteins. These chromoproteins are nourished by specific trace elements [zeo-supplements]deemed important in their synthesis. This is the trick to coloration.. Mike, you're closing in well on the concept. HTH. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Yea Bob I can understand the need to protect the patent on the contents so no problem thier.
The lower of the nutrients in any tank will reduce the zoox populations in SPS style corals, which will allow the pigments to become more visable through the tissue. ABOUT TIME you DSB guys caught with us BB guys on that, hehe :lol: Sorry I am a week man and couldnt resist.
OK more questions, no free rides Bob, lol.
>The zeovit was explained to me that it didnt remove P, is that true.
The removal of ammonium is very important in my eyes, it is one that is far to over looked IMHO. Very important for those that use sediment systems.
>The end product left behind in the reactor chamber, I was told should be put back into the tank. This one I have a hard time with, do you have any reasoning behind that?
>On the trace elements, with out getting to deep on the contents, is it safe to assume they fall into the micro nutrient catagory??? I know the iron would.

mike

 

[DonW]

Mike,
In plain english what is ammonium?

Don

 

[bobgoode]

Well, my P04's are zero for a reason since I've started ZEOvit. The method reduces N's/P's to very low levels that I've never been able to reach before with previous methods, ie. DSB/p; P04 absorbers; Poly-Filters; The cleaning out the stones is performed daily with simple handle pumping up/down x10-15 reps. This removes "duff" from the media allowing nitratification & denitrifying bacteria surface area to function, at the same time the mulm is available for coral nourishment & eventual skimming. The added supplements do provide minor essential elements necessary for tissue health. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Don Ammonium is another form of nitrogen, simular to nitrates or nitrites and so on. It is not very toxic, the reason I mentioned it is that if thier is the presence of ammonia in the sand substriaght dentrification will not occur, instead the nitrates get reduced to ammonium, then the ammonium goes bact to the top of the cycle and get reduced to nitrites once again. It is my opinion that most folks with Sand substriaghts have ammonia in them and thus denitrification does not occur, and then the above happens. Having a source for the removal of ammonium would break that nitrogen cycles and actually begin to export it.

thanks for the info Bob


Mike

 

[bobgoode]

But if they have a plenum..... Bob

 

[DonW]

I thought zeolites did not absorb ammonia in saltwater. Soaking in saltwalter is what releases the ammonia (recharges). So if it rejects the ammonia it would make a perfect bio filter media.
Am I correct or totally backwards??

Don

 

[bobgoode]

Don, the exact zeolites [clinoptilolites] used are unknown, as is their exact mode of action. Some do not believe zeolites can absorb ammonia enough to be a factor, but the zeolites have sufficient high affinity in seawater to create a steeper ammonia gradient which would facilitate bacteria to remove ammonia much faster, therefore, they would compete more strongly with other organisms for the ammonia uptake. Nitrifying & denitrifrying bacteria inhabit the zeolites. Bob

Don, ammonia uptake is the key why the current within the zeo-filter must be high, o/w bacteria wouldn't have any chance to process the dissolved inorganic nutrients. Therefore, the clinoptilolites absorb ammonia, the bacteria nitrify the ammonia on the oxic surface which is further denitrified within the molecular sieve of the zeolite[anoxic inner surface]. The zeobak/zeofood7/zeostart are the seed & feed components for the heterotrophic bacteria. Bob

 

[Ed Hahn]

Ok Bob,
You must have convinced one of the guys down here in Tri-cities. He is going to try it this month. Here is site he gave me to read. http://www.elegancereef.com/forum/v...&start=0&sid=27b7977a53cf0a7ea99b5555d006e819

 

[Ed Hahn]

And Please check out the new skimmer from Germany (does it look like a Euroreef to you?).

 

[bobgoode]

Thnx. Ed for the link. I'll need to read that one Alexander uses a H&S. I talked to him today & after testing the Bubble-King[with titanium pin-wheels] he may change. Ed, I also know for fact, that over on RC a negative ZEOvit poster has been using the system. I really think as people SEE the differences in a zeo-tank, it will make little sense to try sustaining SPS w/o it's advantages. Bob

 

[Ed Hahn]

Bobgoode,
I am gonna watch my Buddies Tank. I love his fantastic looking little SPS garden. I wish he could have participated in the Tank tour this year. Ron, I hope to hear more from you Buddy. He was too busy. He talked about doing a before and after pictures. He does not communicate on forums very much. Thats the fun thing about sharing. He will do a honest and up to date how he feels with system and I can learn from him.

 

[bobgoode]

Ed, let your buddy know I'm willing to answer any questions or make recommendations. He can feel free to PM/EM me. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

I really think as people SEE the differences in a zeo-tank, it will make little sense to try sustaining SPS w/o it's advantages.

Thats a pretty strong statement Bob. As time goes by we can look as see how this system pans outs, But I would say for right now it is the latest NEW system to hit the market. I wish it all the luck, but I can tell you that it is not required to have fantastic coloration or healthy sps.


Mike