Amphiprionidae (Clownfish) Workshop

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Hi all.

I'm sorry for your loss Krish :( I know when I lose a baby clownfish, it does get to me too..... So do you have two now in there? Did you take the fish out or did you actually not see it die? Just curious.

While many think the Premnas biaculeatus is the largest (female) clownfish, the largest clownfish (adult female) belongs to the Amphiprion chrysopterus as mentioned in Wilkerson's book. Very close indeed, but the commonly called chrysopterus clown (bluestripe clown, orange-fin clown, etc) does prevail.

More to come...

Best,
Ilham
 
wwouu thank you so much Ron and Elmo i've been just wondering that for quite sometime and it was killing me :) .
i can't wait for your next topics to come ilham.. i'm just loving it :)
 
I'm sorry for your loss Krish I know when I lose a baby clownfish, it does get to me too..... So do you have two now in there? Did you take the fish out or did you actually not see it die? Just curious.

Yes...Just two clowns as well as the yellow tang and small wrasse.

As for the clown I lost, I saw him struggling for a few days. Came home one day and he was basically on his side at the bottom of the tank sort of gasping for air and then a little later he was gone. He didn't have any marks on him to indicate disease and he had good coloration which I thought was odd...
 
SECTION 4: Differences between Tank-Raised and Wild-Caught Clownfishes

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN TANK-RAISED AND WILD-CAUGHT CLOWNFISHES

So far I have discussed selection of species, how to tell whether your clownfish is male, female, nor neither, and some ways/places for you to acquire your future clownfishes. I will take a moment to discuss differences between tank-raised specimens versus wild-caught specimens, with the obvious notion that as hobbyists, we want to limit the amount we purchase animals taken from the coral reefs. This is especially obvious if what we are buying as consumers is available as tank-raised specimens.

So why buy Tank-Raised clownfishes?

Young Age

One benefit of buying tank-raised clownfishes is age. When buying tank-raised specimens, you know your fishes will be young, mostly falling between 5-12 months of age. This way, you will be sure to have a young clown that will give you years of enjoyment in your tank. In contrast, a wild-caught clownfish may be several years old with most ranging from 2-5 years of age. The commonly caught wild gold-strain of the Premnas biaculeatus is usually seen at your LFS with bright yellow bands. This species does not develop fully bright gold-bands until at least 2-3 years of age. So the fish is at least that old. In addition, many people think that size is a good indicator of age. This is untrue, as a clownfish that is a decade year old may still be only 1" in length--the reason being that it is still an adolescent (possible oxymoron? - old adolescent ). It is definitely sad to buy wild-caught clownfish 'pairs', never to find out their actual ages may be in the early teens.​
Disease and parasite free

This is by far another important advantage to buying tank-raised fish, in some ways even more so than age. If I had the choice to pick either a healthy a 3-5 year old clown or a young, sick clown with internal parasites, etc and other disease, I would pick the former. As a breeder, it is rewarding to be able to supply disease-free fish. Almost all breeders will keep their grow-out systems as a separate stand-alone system, away from the parent/main tank. It is this isolation that helps to ensure that disease and parasite-free fish remain that way. Can tank-raised fish fall prey to diseases? The answer is yes. There is a good chance that tank-raised fishes become ill upon arrival at your LFS or in your home tank, particularly if another fish harboring that disease is present in the same water as the tank-raised fishes. In my opinion, the goal of every LFS should be in having separate systems. One more wild-caught specimens, one for tank-raised fishes, and another complete system for quarantine (QT).​
Foods-prepared, frozen, dry-rations

TR fishes will already be on prepared, frozen, freeze-dried, and other dry forms of foods. In other words, they will not be picky and will know that even if its not moving, it still constitutes food. While it is true that recently arrived wild-caught fishes may not eat for several days, some just fail to eat as they are stressed and harbor diseases/parasites. Buying TR fishes ensure that they will be eager to eat voraciously in your tank with any fish foods easily attainable from your LFS, pet store, or supermarket. Doing this will also save time, as wild clownfishes may start to eat only with live foods present, and purchasing TR fishes will allow you time to skip hatching brine shrimp or having to buy live adult brine or mysis shrimp (artemia and mysid).​
Behavior-'tamer'

Tank-raised specimens seem to be 'tamer' than their wild-counterparts. In my experience, I have seen three TR adult gold-stripe Premnas clownfishes coexist in the same tank without any fighting. In retrospect, the gold-stripe pairs in my possession are a reckon to behold. In my opinion, this 'tamer' behavior is due to early exposure to competition and forced exposure to eachother in a confined area. I had about 50 or so of the gold-stripes in a small tank, of roughly ~9-10 gallons of water volume, and indeed they were bickering, chasing, and lunging at one another. Yet, this exposure and their wild natural behavior of attacking each other, allows them to be somewhat tamer as adults. They do not see one another as 'enemy' even in a confined area.​
Ecologically 'sound'

Taking common species out of the ocean is an absurd thing at this point in time, especially with the numerous types of available species as Tank-Raised. In my opinion, the only reason to purchase a wild-caught specimen is for genetic diversity. However, as a breeder, mutations will rarely occur among tank-raised fishes, even those who are brother/sister pairs (yes...incest...:lol: ), although at about F10 (10th generation of pairing...brother/sister..) mutations will show up. The other reason, being that you are locating a more uncommon clownfish that is not yet available as tank-raised. Other than those two reasons, I suggest everyone to purchase TR specimens. It will make your life easier ;) and you will feel proud of saving a couple clownfishes from not taking them out of their coral reef home.​

As always, I am open for questions, and edits may occur throughout this workshop.

Best,
Ilham

(post 8)
 
*****ADDITIONAL NOTE*****

Information from Reply #96 have been added to the edited Reply #11.

Best,
Ilham
 
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Elmo18 said:
TR fishes will already be on prepared, frozen, freeze-dried, and other dry forms of foods. In other words, they will not be picky and will know that even if its not moving, it still constitutes food.

I just wanted to comment on this. When first introduced, my TR Onyx clowns would hang out in the same corner that the breeder had positioned an automatic feeder (they stopped doing that after they were put on my feeding schedule :)). They would definately go after anything that went into the water. Another behavioral tidbit, whenever I would work in the tank, or put the viewbox in, all the other fish would swim off and hide, while my clowns would come to investigate. I'm not sure a WC clown would be so curious, but I assumed this curiousness was because they were TR? Maybe Ilham can comment on this.
 
NaH2O said:
I just wanted to comment on this. When first introduced, my TR Onyx clowns would hang out in the same corner that the breeder had positioned an automatic feeder (they stopped doing that after they were put on my feeding schedule :)). They would definately go after anything that went into the water. Another behavioral tidbit, whenever I would work in the tank, or put the viewbox in, all the other fish would swim off and hide, while my clowns would come to investigate. I'm not sure a WC clown would be so curious, but I assumed this curiousness was because they were TR? Maybe Ilham can comment on this.

I think this is an interesting observation Nikki. I do think that it may in some ways be relevant to the fact that they are Tank-Raised fishes. However, I have also known fishes who are Wild-Caught, and have exhibited the same response even during feeding. I think this is more of a recognition over a repetitious event.

However, I do agree that TR clownfishes will definitely be more eager to go up to the surface for food, as they are usually surface feeders when young. With wild clownfishes, they may not be so used to surface feeding as they usually wait for food to passby their host anemone, rather than risk life by swimming to the surface of the water to get some food. Moreover, your TR clownfishes will have no worry about going to the surface, because they do not know of any predators.

So in TR clownfishes, this response is usually there. With clownfishes, the feeding response can differ within specimen to specimen. Some will be placid, while others tend to be spooked a lot easier. It is also known that some species are more prone to be skittish and scared than other species. A good example is the pink skunks vs. ocellaris. Pink skunks are very skittish when first introduced into a tank, and may stay that way. Ocellaris on the other hand, are quite the opposite.

Best,
Ilham
 
My clownfishes since both were wild :( ( i know the husband bought them as a gift)
The first day, they didn't have a clue on what was going on, but the second day i saw them being curious and swimming around and as soon as i put a little pieces of frozen food in the tank, they just ate right away and from that moment i think they knew that i was suppose to feed them :p .
during water changes my female at that time would go really close to me and try biting me even when they weren't even hosting anything.
Anyways, i thought i'd share this :) .
 
TR sounds the better option but u did not talk about anenome hosting being more difficult with TR clowns if there breed many times like at my lfs with out anenomes they seem to lose all intrest both I and my friend own black clowns and his live in a bubble tip after several months and mine dont even go near my bubble tip, the lfs said that i had to get this 85 dollar anenome for them cause they would only live in a ceartin type but my friend has already defyed this opion
 
Hi all...I may be changing the order a bit here...but I have decided to do Topic 10, which is on Myths about Clownfishes, to random posts here and there, sparsed out between the other topics.

This way, in my opinion, it will keep the thread fresher, while the bigger posts are ahead.

Section 5 on 'Forming Your Own Pair' will be done after Christmas Day...so stay tuned. Hopefully you all can understand I cannot do post after post (especially ones where i can see can take 50 pages to write ;) ) in a quickly fashion.

Have a nice holiday...and don't forget to give your clownfishes a treat!!!

- Ilham
 
Myth #1

Myth #1: Clownfishes need an anemone to survive (in our tanks).

Untrue. Even if your LFS sales associate tells you otherwise, or any other expert reefkeepers for that matter. Clownfishes do NOT need an anemone. In the wild, clownfishes use an anemone for protection, nothing else. When they are born, they go up to the surface to feed on zooplankton. Upon metamorphosis (i.e. when they change to planktonic fry to actual fish), they sink down the bottom of the reef and must find an anemone to go into. In our reef tanks, there are no real predators, unless you put one in there. Hence, while in the wild, there would be no clownfishes if anemones did not exist, it is not the same as in the glass/acrylic box[es] we keep in our home. Often times, the fishes will take on other corals that act as surrogate hosts for them. In the lack of corals, any 'cave' like object or any place they can hide from direct plain view can be taken by them as a 'home' or 'nighttime resting place'. This includes but not limited to powerheads, heaters, live rock, dead decoration rock, pottery, mugs, tiles, and much more. Since anemones themselves do not have a great track record of living in our tanks (yes, even the dubbed easier 'bubble tip and rose bubble tip anemones' still lack a good track record) it may be the hobbyists best judgment to skip purchasing an anemone for the sake of its own life, and because clownfishes just do not require one.

signing off from work....Merry Christmas all!

Best,
Ilham

(post 9)
 
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Dispelling Myths

Thank you Ilham for keeping up with this Thread I really do appreciate it and i firmly believe the Clown fishes are one of the most Popular fish in our tanks.
One question about anemone's do they have any correlation with Clowns Breeding? Helps? doesn't matter? It seems for me personally that My clowns will get more aggressive of other fish if they do approach My anemone's versus when they leave the anemone's to feed. Again Thank you Ilham for this Thread and Thanks to Mike for asking you to do this Work shop.
Jeff




Elmo18 said:
Myth #1: Clownfishes need an anemone to survive (in our tanks).

Untrue. Even if your LFS sales associate tells you otherwise, or any other expert reefkeepers for that matter. Clownfishes do NOT need an anemone. In the wild, clownfishes use an anemone for protection, nothing else. When they are born, they go up to the surface to feed on zooplankton. Upon metamorphosis (i.e. when they change to planktonic fry to actual fish), they sink down the bottom of the reef and must find an anemone to go into. In our reef tanks, there are no real predators, unless you put one in there. Hence, while in the wild, there would be no clownfishes if anemones did not exist, it is not the same as in the glass/acrylic box[es] we keep in our home. Often times, the fishes will take on other corals that act as surrogate hosts for them. In the lack of corals, any 'cave' like object or any place they can hide from direct plain view can be taken by them as a 'home' or 'nighttime resting place'. This includes but not limited to powerheads, heaters, live rock, dead decoration rock, pottery, mugs, tiles, and much more. Since anemones themselves do not have a great track record of living in our tanks (yes, even the dubbed easier 'bubble tip and rose bubble tip anemones' still lack a good track record) it may be the hobbyists best judgment to skip purchasing an anemone for the sake of its own life, and because clownfishes just do not require one.

signing off from work....Merry Christmas all!

Best,
Ilham

(post 9)
 
I have enjoyed your series on the clownfish, thank you!

I do not own a tank yet but am working on a 55-gallon tank w/ lots of live rock and a few "easy" corals. (My hubby just agreed it was o.k. not long before Christmas.) My kids have already picked out the fish they want me to get--a firefish, a neon gold goby, a yellowhead jawfish, and 3 blue/green chromis. I would also like to add a pair of ocellaris clownfish.

What do you think? Will the clowns be happy in this kind of a setup? I have read that they can bother some corals. Is there some I should avoid?

Thanks for the info!
 
wow what a great workshop,i have learned quite a bit from this shop.
2 years ago i purchased 4 tankraised black percs from a darwin strain that were tank raised in hawaii,these were my only fish that survived the blackout,all other fish died to coral stress poisoning.1 week before christmas they became ill they stopped eating fins became ragged they died very quickly.i was stumped everything happened so fast i didnt know which way to turn.2 of the clowns paired off, laying fertilized eggs.To me and other hobbyists these fish were priceless.so my attempt to breed these fish for the hobby will not happen as of yet.
also i was wondering by the photos if you could tell me the scientific name.
also i was wondering if anyone knows a breeder that has these fish.

thankyou
vic

elmo keep up the good work
 
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