Amphiprionidae (Clownfish) Workshop

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Dude, you should call me and I will type. I do 60 WPM. Accuracy depending on caffeine level :) That typing class was probably the most useful class I ever took in terms of getting a job. Course my "career" has consisted of low wage data entry, retail and food service...
Kate
 
Thank you for the offer kate :) ... but I was only joking...as I type much faster than what i said earlier.....i think 100+ wpm ...ask mojoreef :)

I will add to the thread on Tuesday (tomorrow).

Best,

Ilham
 
pssssshhh, well i still appreciate u doing this, i still need to get a pair of clowns though, can't decide what kind to get, i saw some brown saddlebacks at saltwater city, i was dissappointed with them (not saltwater city's quality, just the fish overall) , they look better on liveaquaria.com, i was goign to get those but ya, now it's all a mystery
Andrew
 
Section 3...condinued..

Buying from a Breeder

I did not think this needed an explanation, but since it is a way of getting quality clownfishes, aside from your local fish store, or from online retailers, I felt like it needed a paragraph on its own. First, this is not an autobiography of my life, nor any breeder's life, however, a breeder or breeders have taken the plunge into breeding clownfishes due to one or more of these reasons:

  • Seeking more knowledge/experimentation
  • Wanting to help conserve natural resources from a hobbyist point of view
  • Breeding solely for business
  • Breeding for 'fun' as people call it
  • Providing other hobbyists with a source of quality, yet reasonably priced specimens

Either way, breeding can become a full time job for that matter, and I acknowledge other breeders (in this forum) and elsewhere for their efforts. Some benefits from buying from a breeder is the fact that customer service will be closeby, or within reach via phone, or some other means. Breeders will usually have data sheets with dates of when 'your' specific clownfishes hatched, or which exact strain of species 'your' clownfishes are when you purchase them. Aside from that, foods and just physical proof of good husbandry will attract you because you know they are taken care of, and are in fact 100% tank-raised.

The one drawback, that I see is the limited amount of stock, especially for small breeders, and the number of different species available at any one time. However, for the more common species, which still include attractive clownfishes, local breeders are definitely a great route as a source of quality clownfishes.

Hopefully this section answered any of your questions. I will continue with Section 4 the following day. As always, please post any questions you may have.

Best,

Ilham

(post 7)
 
Rock-N-Ruin said:
did ya still need sand, I have about a 6 ga. bucket full. already cleaned it EXTENSIVELY.. let me know how much ya need, if ya stil do?? Jeff ps. it will be donated to your cause...

Hi Jeff. At the moment, I have some sand. When I run out, though, I will let you know :D *long live the sand...*

- Ilham
 
Thanks for the last section Elmo, as I purchased my Black Onyx from a breeder. I didn't need to drive there, but it was nice to see his set-up and all the babies. I knew they were well cared for, and I could see the health of all the little ones.
 
I am along for hte ride. Just got me 2 little ocelaris/perculas (not sure which they are. I guess I will find out if I follow this workshop!!!) the LFS had 2 tanks. One labeled ocelaris and one labeled percula. The fish all looked the same. went with the ocelaris (a little less expensive). Later on in the workshop I will post a pic of them.

:)
 
krish75 said:
Great thread Elmo! You are doing a great job here. I have been going back and forth between threads trying to get this one covered and I have, so I'm up to date. I have two small percs that have the same white bands, but the orange color betwen the two are different. The orange on one of them has a yellowish tint to it compared to the other ones, whose orange looks redder. Would it be a "hybrid" strain of the percula or a totally different percula all together? Sorry if it is not question time yet, but if so, here is the best picture I have so far of the two...

http://imageshack.us

Krish,

Mine look tha same as yours. One has a deeper orange thatn the other one.
 
Just got me 2 little ocelaris/perculas (not sure which they are. I guess I will find out if I follow this workshop!!!) the LFS had 2 tanks.

Elmo - do you think you could talk about the differences between A. occelaris and A. percula?
 
Elmo18 said:
The dominant clown will turn to a male first, which occurs anywhere from 3-6 months. The second clownfish will then turn male, and eventually the dominant clownfish will turn to a female.

So, What if you only have 2 adalesents? Will they both become male or will one become female? Shold I go out and buy a 3rd adolecent from the same LFS/tank I got these 2 from?

Thanks!

James
 
Elmo18 said:
SEXING OF CLOWNFISH (GENDER DETERMINATION)



Clownfishes are either one of the possible three: adolescents, males, or females. Clownfishes less than 8-12 months of age are usually adolescents, as they have not developed any social ranking within the group. An adolescent turns to a male when another adolescent clownfish is present along with another adolescent clownfish. This does NOT happen overnight. Two adolescents will bicker and pick fights. One eventually will win and the other will eventually give up. The dominant clown will turn to a male first, which occurs anywhere from 3-6 months. The second clownfish will then turn male, and eventually the dominant clownfish will turn to a female. While this can be confusing, the route the clownfishes go through are:

adolescent--->male--->female

and that route being a 'one-way' street--that is, once a clownfish turns to a male, it cannot become a sexless adolescent. In the same situation, once a clownfish becomes a female, it cannot turn back to a male. This phenomenon is referred to as: protandrous hermaphroditism.

To clarify things a little more, we can use the analogy of Peter Pan. Adolescents within a social hierarchy of clownfishes will always stay adolescents and do not change to males when there is an adult Female and Male pair within the environment. However, if one or two of the adult pair dies, then one of the adolescents will quickly turn to a male and replace the lost adult clownfish. If the adult female dies, the adult male then changes to a female, while an adolescent changes to a male.

In the next post, we will look at physical differences between males and females.

- Ilham

(post 3)


So your pair will eventually change. There really isn't a need to add anymore to your tank. But you can if you like. They will fight a bit to establish dominence, but will stop when the pair is established.

I think that is correct, Ilham will clarify.
 
well Ron said it hehe :) .
I agree with Nikki on the ocellaris and true perc.. i'm always getting confused (may be a need new glasses or they need to stay put so i can see better:oops: )
 
Well...Section 4 will be up Thursday....and I will answer those questions above that day as well.

Work, finals, etc...have filled my weekend and early next week.

From now on, I may do one section per week, so I can have time to answer questios before starting the next one. Again...thank you for being patient.

Best,
Ilham
 
Detri said:
Is there anyway you could show a pic and point out the geographical diffrences between some Amphiprion percula?

Hello Detri. I apologize for the late reply for those who are following in. I will provide photos, however, they are not my photos and have not asked permission to use them yet, so I will post them when i get the 'ok'. I do keep a couple pairs of Ocellaris now, but currently do not have a pair of true perculas.

I will clarify the different variants of Amphiprion percula. Basically there are three different major strains:

  • Normal (basic type) variant
  • SI (Solomon Island) Black variant
  • Onyx variant

Normal variant

This variant found in a large vast area in the SE Asian waters and South Pacific. Mostly, the ones you see at the local fish stores are from Solomon Islands (SI) or Papua New Guinea (close to Irian Jaya, the Indonesian side of the island). The ones originating from Solomon Islands are more orangish/reddish coloration, while the ones from Papua are orange to orange-yellowish. There will be some black bordering the white bars. You can differentiate the normal variant with an Amphiprion ocellaris by looking at the eyes. True percula eyes have a bright orange ring around it. In ocellaris clown, the eyes are muddy with an outer ring that matches closely to the body coloration.

SI (Solomon Island) Black variant

Here is where it can get fuzzy, and here I am definitely on the stricter side when talking about the next two variants, for one, because they are much more uncommon than the 'normal variant', and two, because what one person calls a certain variant, may not be what another person believes it is.

The SI Black has complete black between head bar and tail bar and in between the middle bar. The other body coloration is reddish, reminiscent of true perculas coming from this area. The spiny and soft dorsal fins (anterior and posterior) are not necessarily black and do not have to be black/gray. The face and snout will be of the reddish-orange coloration in addition to the tail coloration, although the black outer areas of the tail will still exist. Again, it is not necessary for black to go into the tail area.

Onyx variant

Again, the lines are fuzzy, but I tend to be even more strict. There are similarities between the SI Black and the Onyx variants. The closest similarities are the requirement that the body is all black in between the head bar and the tail bar and the middle stripe. To be strict, and following those who first coined the term 'onyx', the spiny dorsal fin (the first dorsal fin) must be black as well. More often, the face and tail will include black as well, and the snout will remain an orange-yellow color. A difference between the two variants is that the SI Black has a reddish-orange coloration, while the Onyx variant will have the orange-yellowish type. What makes it even fuzzier is the fact that not all reddish-orange true perculas come from Solomon Islands, and not all yellowish-orange true perculas come from Papua New Guinea. So to be sure where your pair is coming from, ask for the origin from your LFS, online retailer, and/or breeder.

The key thing is ALL black between the white bars. That is the bare minimum for 'Onyx', and is not being 'strict' at all.

I will answer more questions to come.

Best,
Ilham
 
Thats awsome Ilham, thank you! Like you I have an itch to try and breed mine. I know I have a year or more before they are ready to spawn. But, it also gives me time to make the perfect environment for them. I am definately keeping my current tank for the reason.

I just want to make sure I know how to buy my friends for the one I have left. So I can atleast keep the same strain and able to tell people what they are for sure and where they are from. I think it is just as important. Talking to many diffrent people, the proudest ones seem to be the ones that know where there fish came from and know there scientific names.
 
Well, since this is the clown thread, I'll let everyone know I lost a clown this week:cry: . He was the last percula I added and the biggest. He seemed fine the first few days I had him, but then the other two perculas gave him a hard time and then he started to "fly a kite" (that's what i use to call it whenever I saw a fish with a long trail coming out of their butt) Isn't that bad? I've noticed he became sluggish around the same time...
 
ohh krish i'm still really sorry :(, i still can't get over my female clown that dyed months ago.

I just have one tiny question that i dont know if it can be answered :) and you can answer it when this is all done, i'm just really curious
what species of clowns get bigger or who' gets bigger between all the clown fishes familys?
sorry dood i just had to ask:oops:
 
This is just a guess, but I would have to say the female Maroon might be the biggest. Amphiprion Frenatus (Tomato) get pretty big aswell.
 
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