Amphiprionidae (Clownfish) Workshop

[Elmo18]

One question about anemone's do they have any correlation with Clowns Breeding? Helps? doesn't matter? It seems for me personally that My clowns will get more aggressive of other fish if they do approach My anemone's versus when they leave the anemone's to feed.

Clownfishes do not need anemones to survive in our tanks. However, if there is an anemone that is a natural host for that specific species of clownfish (or one that is not its natural host but still desireable...i.e. rose bubble anemone hosting ocellaris clownfishes) they will almost always prefer the anemone and call it 'home'.

The agression you are witnessing is true whether or not an anemone hosts your clownfishes, or an inanimate object hosting them. If they are spooked, they will retreat to the anemone, and similarly, in a tank without an anemone, they will retreat to their "surrogate" home, something they feel secure in. In this case, if you left a large glass vase in the tank instead of an anemone, the clownfishes may use that. In the same fashion, now if you place your hand near the area of the vase, they will definitely be more agressive, as they know you are 'invading' their safe-haven.

So to answer your question on whether they help clownfish to breed, the answer has two sides. Yes, if the anemone hosts the clownfishes (which is best to attain an anemone that is a known natural host, otherwise it may take a long time, or never, for the clownfishes to 'enter' the anemone). However, I am not saying that an anemone is preferred over an inanimate object, such as rocks, decorations, pots, tiles, your mom's favorite Egyptian vase, etc. What anemones provide for clownfishes in the wild is protection, and so if clownfishes decide to go into an object, then they must feel secure there, or near it. In a way, anemones give much more of a burden than inanimate objects, especially because they require much more attention (i.e. feeding, lighting, etc.), whereas as the object you can just place in the tank, and leave it alone.

I will mention this now, but will elaborate later. I go by my own little motto involving three S's. They are Stability, Security, Sustenance, that is to say major tank changes, either water qualities, etc or physical changes, the clownfishes surroundings, and sustenance--foods and their quality. I should probably patent that...:lol: j/k. In my opinion, following a strict three-S's regimen will provide your clownfishes with strength and longevity. This solves the problem of having to go back buying more clownfishes from your LFS, online, or whichever route, that will eventually die, and repeating the process. I know we all have made mistakes throughout this hobby, and I know because i made some dumb mistakes. Throughout this workshop, however, are my experiences, and those experiences are biased with my opinions. I am trying my best to cover all three sides, and not state these opinions from a one-sided perspective, although it is hard sometimes because when something 'works' for me, I normally don't try to dwell on it too much, and move on...

Best,

Ilham

 

[Elmo18]

Will a single clownfish be happy or do they always need to be paired up?

Hi Dwaine. While this seems like an easy answer, it is one I also dwell upon because we have to define the term 'happy'. For one, I do not know of anyone who can tell exactly the emotions of fish, so I will give my view instead.

If by happy we mean long-term longevity it is not necessary for a clownfish to be in a 'pair'. A single clownfish will eventually (if not already) become a female. It is certain that a clownfish that has been 'alone' without any other clownfish present will have become a female by 2-3 years. Longevity is more based on foods, and their quality, their surroundings, and the water they live in. CLownfishes coexist with many reef fishes, even when not in the presence of a 'pair'.

If by happy we mean the ability to court and bear offspring, then obviously this isn't possible without a pair. In my opinion, we miss a lot of the biological history of clownfishes if they are not existing in 'twos'. We miss the bickering of two adolescent clownfishes, or the 'shaking, and twitching' of one clownfish to the other. Again, in my opinion, the best thing you can get a clownfish, is another clownfish of the same species. The interactions and play between the clownfishes when they exist as a pair, is definitely interesting.

So, no, clownfishes do not 'need' to exist as a pair to be happy. They can live singly indefinitely. Again, we are in control of that, and as many of us attempt to mimic nature, it is preferable that there be two (or more in some cases) of the same species because it is difficult to find a lone clownfish in the wild without another one close by it. Nature dive photographs and videos prove this is the case.

Best,
Ilham

 

[WaterDogs]

Thank you Ilham!

 

[Elmo18]

I do not own a tank yet but am working on a 55-gallon tank w/ lots of live rock and a few "easy" corals. (My hubby just agreed it was o.k. not long before Christmas.) My kids have already picked out the fish they want me to get--a firefish, a neon gold goby, a yellowhead jawfish, and 3 blue/green chromis. I would also like to add a pair of ocellaris clownfish.

What do you think? Will the clowns be happy in this kind of a setup? I have read that they can bother some corals. Is there some I should avoid?

Hi there! Your setup sounds great. I am sure you already know, but one downfall of people in this hobby, is going at it full speed the first time around. Patience is key in almost every aspect of this hobby...So with that in mind, the proposed list of fishes you intend to keep will not bother clownfishes or harm them in any way. They are all community fishes. A pair of ocellaris will do great and will get along fine with them.

On the subject of clownfishes nipping at corals, and especially the ocellaris clownfishes, I have never witnessed this. There are always instances where a food item have dropped on a rock 'near' a coral or very close to a coral and they will seem as if to 'nip' corals, but they are actually attempting to capture a meal. Other times they may just be nipping algae, or cleaning. Clownfishes eat a varied diet, and they are not a strict carnivore, and I suggest that you provide some algal diets for clownfishes as well. I will cover more on diets as the workshop progresses.

For now, I like your plan, and it shows that you care about the animals as you are doing research. Very cool.

And WELCOME TO RF!

Best,
Ilham

 

[spongebob lover]

i just wanted to say thanks ilham for all the info, i always like reading what you write

 

[jake65]

Just noticed your catch phrase Ilham..."One cup of sand a day keeps the BB away."...lol, I like it

 

[spongebob lover]

hey ilham, sorry if i'm out of the topic, but i was just wondering if there's such a thing as a clownfish pooping white poop?
sorry, i just had to ask because yesterday i noticed it on my clownfish .

 

[MarineTeng]

just curious to when the next topic comes out, no pressure
Andrew
btw this has been an awesome workshop

 

[Elmo18]

just curious to when the next topic comes out, no pressure
Andrew
btw this has been an awesome workshop

Hi Andrew. Not a problem at all. I just had trouble with a malfunctioning DSL modem for a bit at home. Will post the next topic tomorrow, I'm guessing around early morning, or late afternoon. Not sure which one yet.

Best,
Ilham

 

[spongebob lover]

i can't wait for the next topic too .

 

[scubajames]

Ocellaris Clowns

Elmo this is a wonderful workshop your doing, I appreciate the knowledge your sharing with us. I'm looking for a pair of Orcellaris clowns I would like to get them from a breeder. Is there someone local to the Seattle area that you could recommend me to.

 

[spongebob lover]

uhh uhh i know who?

Elmo (ilham)

 

[Elmo18]

Hi scubajames, I am a breeder, if you can PM me or I'll send you one later this evening. Also in the seattle area.

Next post will be this evening as well.

Best,
Ilham

 

[Elmo18]

Hmm..well I tried...not going to finish at the moment..lets hope I finish this tomorrow.

Best,
Ilham

 

[Elmo18]

SECTION 5: Forming Your Own Pair

SECTION 5: FORMING YOUR OWN PAIR


Clownfishes almost always occur in pairs or in groups in the wild. Dive photos or videos of areas where they are abundant prove this is the case. Mimicking such wonders of nature offers the hobbyist or clownfish keeper endless hours of enjoyment--such as watching them struggle for dominance, the attacks and lunges of juvenile clownfishes toward eachother, the unforgettable 'bobbing up and down' as they stay swim in place, and the other comical behaviors that prove they are true 'clowns' of the sea. However, as the saying, 'nothing is free', the road to a pair of clownfishes you will be able to enjoy can be filled with hours of stress (which we Seattle-ites normally cure with a trip to Starbucks, and tell the barista you want a triple-shot of your favorite no foam extra hot non-fat latte in a double cup :lol: ) Not my drink, but you get my drift. This section is appropriate for those hobbyists who have either already decided on what clownfish species they would like to keep in their fish-only or reef tank, or for those that either already have a single clownfish, including those who have a couple of clownfishes in their tanks and would like further information on options of pairing. I will break the sections up between the two genus: Amphiprion and Premnas as they are very different in ways of forming a pair.

Pairing Amphiprion

As mentioned in an earlier section, there are twenty-seven known species of clownfishes from this genus. Forming pairs of this genus are usually (and I say usually because certain individual fishes will test you ) much easier than pairing the maroon clownfishes from the genus Premnas. In addition, there are several options that are proven to work, again in 'most' cases. Fishes will differ from one individual to the next, and in my opinion, it is hard to say that things will work 100%. For those who do not have any clownfishes yet and are ready to purchase, here are a couple options:

Options for those without clownfishes or thinking about purchasing

• Purchase two small juvenile clowns
• Purchase one large (3"+) clownfish, and another ~1" or slightly bigger
• Purchase a 'pair', with one clown bigger than the other
• Purchase one large (3"+) clownfish, wait, and get another small juvenile at another time
• Purchase a small clownfish (~1-1.5"), wait, and get a large (3"+) within a couple months

Lets go through each option. Purchasing two small juveniles is a recommended option because these clownfishes will be sexless, that is genderless, and neither male nor female 'yet'. This means they will eventually place themselves in their appropriate roles as time goes on, and one will eventually turn to a male, then the dominant female, while the other changes to a male, and remains that way. Another advantage is their young age, and as always, offered as tank-raised. This assures you that they will be ready to eat dry/frozen/prepared rations, rather than any live foods. Lets say that you see a beautiful clownfish (ok...all clowns are beauts ) at your LFS, breeder in "person". Suppose this clownfish is large, and what I mean by that is at least 3" total length (snout to end of tail). Another option is to bring that clownfish home, and then wait and place a smaller one of the same species at a later time. One reason you may do this is that the second clown you add may be a juvenile, or any small clownfish. This is also done vice-versa...that is you can add a small juvenile clownfish and add a large one later down the road, albeit the second clown should be added within a year, so as not to have that small clown turn into a female. Another option is again, if you see a very nice 'pair' of clownfishes at the LFS or breeder, where both are hosting an anemone, or they are hanging out near each other, and follows the other around, this is a good chance for a great pairing. Please remember that I recommend QT'ing all wild-caught clownfishes that you purchase, in addition to tank-raised specimens that have been in-line with wild-caught fishes in the same system. The risks are just too high, especially if you are adding them to an already nice tank with several fishes.
​

to be continued......

- Ilham

(post 10)

 

[Elmo18]

Section 5...continued..

Pairing Premnas

This is another story altogether. Pairing two maroons may test your true patience. I have to mention here that there are two known strains of clownfishes in the genus Premnas: the regular white-band 'maroon' clownfish, and the other the 'gold-stripe maroon', hailing from the waters of Sumatra, Indonesia. Basic physical differences include the different colorings of the stripes past the juvenile stage, and the thicker banding of the latter. In my experience, the regular white stripe maroon clowns are much more 'feisty' than the second strain. Females of both strains can get to 5"+ rather easily, and 3-4" maroons are very commonplace. My personal experience with the two pairs of gold-stripe maroons that I currently keep is that they tend to be on the 'mellow' side. They will of course lunge at other clownfish species, and like other clownfishes, be overprotective of their territory (be it an anemone or a cave, or any other object it calls 'home'). This is obviously different in different individual fishes, as not all gold-stripe maroons will be nearly be as mellow as mine, and some others I'm sure are even better tank-mates than my current pairs. As personal bias, they are definitely one of the most beautiful, and striking of the clownfishes. Lets begin to look at the options, some of which are similar to pairing clownfishes from the genus Amphiprion, while other techniques are quite different.​

Options for maroon clownfish pairings

• Purchase two juvenile maroons
• Purchase one large maroon of 3-4" in total length, and place a small maroon ~1-2" later
• Purchase a 'pair' in which both tend to stay close to eachother (bonding)
• Purchase a small juvenile maroon clownfish, let it establish, and then later get a larger female of 3-4" in size

So what are the differences? It is mainly in the technique. Because of the more agressive nature of this species towards one another (besides its mate), precautions must be taken because if a female of this species does not want to have anything to do with a male of the species, she will harass the male till no end. This often results in the death of the male or juvenile clownfish, either by physical abuse, or jumping out of the tank. Again, in my opinion, a safe way is to purchase two juvenile maroon clownfishes and let them establish by themselves. It is nature, and this is what happens in the wild. Again, in my opinion, pairing two juvenile maroon clownfishes really does not need any special attention, unless you start seeing some physical damage on one of the clownfishes. So lets go on to discussing when a larger female is added, instead of two juveniles.

Lets suppose you add a larger female maroon clownfish. Be it, a couple months later, or a year later, she will already have gotten used to the tank, and has picked a territory to hang out in. You then decide to finally get that smaller clown from your LFS or breeder, or online establishment. You go through the necessary QT procedures, etc and finally decide to place that fish in with the bigger female. This method has been named various different names, but I call it, "The Look and Stare".

The Look and Stare technique (for adding a small maroon to a larger female; or larger maroon in general)​

Equipment needed:

• A clear "specimen container" that hangs on the tank
• A fine, medium sized net; preferably a brine shrimp net as it is finer (this is one of the fewest times a net is necessary)
• Quick reflexes....

Assuming you have QT'ed and is now time to add the small maroon, you will need to have at least acclimated the fish to the correct salinity of the female/large male's tank water. Now place the new small maroon into the specimen container along with water from the parent tank (not the QT water). Hang the specimen container so that the large container part is inside the parent tank and visible to the larger maroon clown. Watch them both, especially the larger one. If she attempts to lunge, attack the specimen container, you need to wait. She/he will start to calm down after a couple minutes. In my opinion, this takes less than 10 minutes. You must be there at all times because the male may jump out of the specimen container and into the tank....in which case your reflexes will come in handy with that brine shrimp net. I do not advocate that catching of clownfishes with nets, especially maroon clowns because they have their cheekspine, but in this case, speed it of the essence, and the smaller maroon may or may not have its cheekspine (or rather a small, short cheekspine) to do any damage. If the female/male clownfish calms down, it is now time to test by releasing the smaller clown. Again, be ready with the net. As soon as she attacks the smaller one, please net the small one and place again in the container. If after a couple more tries and still the same, the smaller maroon must be traded for another one, and the same technique repeated for the new clown.​

(to be continued...)

Best,
Ilham

(post 11)

 

[Elmo18]

Again, open for questions....I will continue in the next few days.

I also appreciate the kind words from all of you clownfish keepers, and hopefully this will give you a new profound interest and respect for your fishes

Best,
Ilham

 

[Detri]

Great job Ilham.

I purchased 2 new A. Ocellaris to add to my tank. I put them in QT then added them to my main tank. My main tank I have a just recored A, Ocellaris broken stripe. He is smaller then the 2 new additions. The 2 new additions are anout 1.25-1.5" in length from nose to tail. One is slightly larger than the other but both are definately larger then my original.

This has been an awsome experience for my wife and I. They rarely attack one or the other. They do, but it's more chasing eachother away. They all have done the clownfish jitterbug, it's just fasinating. But my smallest fish and the smallest of the 2 new seem to do the jitterbug the most when they are confronting eachother. The Largest of my clowns does do it once and a while. But seems to be the leader for the other 2. Where ever he goes, the other 2 follow. One very cool thing I have noticed is that they all sleep very close to eachother and in the exact same spot every night. I hope that all 3 will get along for along time to come.

 

[chick_glue1989]

how can i encourage my blk n white percs to to spawn, plz tell me now, i cant wait

 

[Detri]

You can't make them spawn. But you can create an environment that they would feel comfortable spawning in. I don't mean to be rude, but, it will be worth the wait. I know Ilham will have it explained alot better in the workshop rather than blurting out an answer. It will be thought out better and have alot more information.