Egg crate below sand?

[Derbird]

Hello Reef Frontiers

I am in the possess of an upgrade . My 29 gallon BioCube is turning in to a 60 gallon rimless cube, just a little bigger :redface:.

My question is, I have seen many new builds lately put a layer of egg crate below the sand bed. Is this a good idea? I like the idea of not having the rocks lay directly on the glass and they may be a little bit more stable, but. I worry about the critters being able to get in there to stir the and bed. I don't want to create a "dead zone" in the sand or create one of the old school plenums.

What do you guys think?

 

[CarlaW]

Depending on the depth of the sandbed, don't put the eggcrate on the bottom, put it just below the level of the rock and tht should leave plenty of space underneath. and just put it where the rock structure is. JMHO

 

[CarlaW]

Cut some pieces of PVC to use as a stand for the crate, forgot to mention that.

 

[NanaReefer]

People also us Star Board to protect the bottom. Personally I think it's much better then egg crate. Takes up less room and sits flush causing no pockets.
Check it out. www.usplastic.com


Sent from my iPhone 4s via Tapatalk.

 

[Ichthys]

One of the reasons to use eggcrate (or some other equivalent) is to evenly distribute the weight of the rock structures over the entire bottom glass of tank. If you place rock directly on glass and stack rock on rock, you could likelly have 120 pounds of rock supported on 4 or 5 points, resulting in a pressure on the glass of 60 pounds per square inch, as opposed to placing it on eggcrate which might result in 4 ounces per square inch. Placing the eggcrate above the glass supported on a few pieces of PVC defeats part of this advantage by once again transferring the rock weight to several small points. It is about weight distribution.

DO NOT place the eggcrate on top of ANY amount of sand. Where there is sand there are sand burrowing organisms. They burrow, tunnel, cha cha and displace sand, then your eggcrate shifts, your rock wall tumbles into your front glass, and you end up with 60 gallons of water on your floor. This usually occurs when you're away for the annual Steampunkfest or an Elvis Convention and you don't find out until 3 days later after your carpet smells like Ursula's you know what.

On a side note. People claim that standard white eggcrate leeches phosphate (the horror). They also say that black egg crate does not leech, or at least does not leech as much. This is of course just what "people" say, and I have no scientific proof of this, and as of the time of this writing, no "people" could be reached for comment.

OBD carries black eggcrate locally.

 

[NanaReefer]

One of the reasons to use eggcrate (or some other equivalent) is to evenly distribute the weight of the rock structures over the entire bottom glass of tank. If you place rock directly on glass and stack rock on rock, you could likelly have 120 pounds of rock supported on 4 or 5 points, resulting in a pressure on the glass of 60 pounds per square inch, as opposed to placing it on eggcrate which might result in 4 ounces per square inch. Placing the eggcrate above the glass supported on a few pieces of PVC defeats part of this advantage by once again transferring the rock weight to several small points. It is about weight distribution.

DO NOT place the eggcrate on top of ANY amount of sand. Where there is sand there are sand burrowing organisms. They burrow, tunnel, cha cha and displace sand, then your eggcrate shifts, your rock wall tumbles into your front glass, and you end up with 60 gallons of water on your floor. This usually occurs when you're away for the annual Steampunkfest or an Elvis Convention and you don't find out until 3 days later after your carpet smells like Ursula's you know what.

On a side note. People claim that standard white eggcrate leeches phosphate (the horror). They also say that black egg crate does not leech, or at least does not leech as much. This is of course just what "people" say, and I have no scientific proof of this, and as of the time of this writing, no "people" could be reached for comment.

OBD carries black eggcrate locally.

Great info, well written with a touch of humor. Love it!!


Sent from my iPhone 4s via Tapatalk.

 

[trido]

In 25 years of fish keeping and having quite a few of them loaded full of rock for African ciclids. I've never had one blow out or break due to a rock touching the bottom.

How much rock do you plan to put into how big of a tank? I'm pretty sure that "people" who put egg crate under their rocks are far and few between. "People" who have had the bottoms break out are even a more rare breed.

 

[mfinn]

I wouldn't do it myself ( eggcrate)
I've put a couple hundred pounds of rock on glass bottom tanks and never had a problem.
The only tank I've actually seen that had a blow out on the bottom, had 2 bulkhead fittings in the bottom.

 

[mfinn]

But on my 240, I did use a acrylic rock rack.
I made it from 3/4" acrylic flat stock. I drilled 1/2" holes and put different lengths of acrylic rod in the holes to support the rock at different heights.
But this was more for water circulation underneath, rather than protecting the glass.

 

[CarlaW]

I guess I should have qualified my statement also, I have a bare bottom tank and I used the pieces of PVC to elevate the rock off the bottom of the tank for better circulation. Aren't the bottoms of most well built tanks tempered?

 

[Derbird]

Depending on the depth of the sandbed, don't put the eggcrate on the bottom, put it just below the level of the rock and tht should leave plenty of space underneath. and just put it where the rock structure is. JMHO

Cut some pieces of PVC to use as a stand for the crate, forgot to mention that.

Kind of like the floating mountains in avatar. I have seen this on bare bottom tanks and it can look pretty sweet. But I'm a Wrasse man so a sand bed is a must

People also us Star Board to protect the bottom. Personally I think it's much better then egg crate. Takes up less room and sits flush causing no pockets.
Check it out. www.usplastic.com


Sent from my iPhone 4s via Tapatalk.

Good idea, I never thought about star board. My only concern would be it is not very porous so any air / water under it could go stagnate. But worth looking in to for sure.

 

[Derbird]

One of the reasons to use eggcrate (or some other equivalent) is to evenly distribute the weight of the rock structures over the entire bottom glass of tank. If you place rock directly on glass and stack rock on rock, you could likelly have 120 pounds of rock supported on 4 or 5 points, resulting in a pressure on the glass of 60 pounds per square inch, as opposed to placing it on eggcrate which might result in 4 ounces per square inch. Placing the eggcrate above the glass supported on a few pieces of PVC defeats part of this advantage by once again transferring the rock weight to several small points. It is about weight distribution.

DO NOT place the eggcrate on top of ANY amount of sand. Where there is sand there are sand burrowing organisms. They burrow, tunnel, cha cha and displace sand, then your eggcrate shifts, your rock wall tumbles into your front glass, and you end up with 60 gallons of water on your floor. This usually occurs when you're away for the annual Steampunkfest or an Elvis Convention and you don't find out until 3 days later after your carpet smells like Ursula's you know what.

On a side note. People claim that standard white eggcrate leeches phosphate (the horror). They also say that black egg crate does not leech, or at least does not leech as much. This is of course just what "people" say, and I have no scientific proof of this, and as of the time of this writing, no "people" could be reached for comment.

OBD carries black eggcrate locally.

Oh yes, but I'm afraid my steampunk days are over, only room in the budget for one obsession

Good thought on not having the egg crate on top of anything. I have had rocks shift just from the sand around them being moved and its not a fun discovery :doh: The dispersal of the weight was the only real reason that I was considering the egg crate thing. But this is my first rimless tank so I am doing my usual over thinking of every small detail that in the end makes no difference lol

In 25 years of fish keeping and having quite a few of them loaded full of rock for African ciclids. I've never had one blow out or break due to a rock touching the bottom.

How much rock do you plan to put into how big of a tank? I'm pretty sure that "people" who put egg crate under their rocks are far and few between. "People" who have had the bottoms break out are even a more rare breed.

Its a 60 gallon rimless cube 24 x 24 x 24. I am thinking 50 - 75 pounds of rock depending how porous it is. I ask about the egg crate under the sand because I have now seen it on three or four new builds on the PNWMAS site so it peeked my curiosity. But I do think we have all seen the you-tube of the tank bottom breaking. I spent that whole night checking on my tanks.

I wouldn't do it myself ( eggcrate)
I've put a couple hundred pounds of rock on glass bottom tanks and never had a problem.
The only tank I've actually seen that had a blow out on the bottom, had 2 bulkhead fittings in the bottom.

But on my 240, I did use a acrylic rock rack.
I made it from 3/4" acrylic flat stock. I drilled 1/2" holes and put different lengths of acrylic rod in the holes to support the rock at different heights.
But this was more for water circulation underneath, rather than protecting the glass.

Hum this is a good thought. If the glass couldn't handle it we would see a lot more wet floors. My old 75 had over a hundred pounds of rock so maybe I'll be fine

I guess I should have qualified my statement also, I have a bare bottom tank and I used the pieces of PVC to elevate the rock off the bottom of the tank for better circulation. Aren't the bottoms of most well built tanks tempered?

Yes the bare bottoms can be cool. But I think my Wrasses would be a bit miffed :mmph: I'm not too concerned about circulation (although maybe I should be) just wanted to save my new tank.

By the way we have to stop meeting in the wee hours of the morning :yo:



Thank you everyone who replied. I think I'll take your advice and just stack the rocks on the glass and surround it with the sand. I'll have to start a build thread when I get a little further along

 

[CarlaW]

The Early hours are the best hours

 

[mfinn]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet,
the rock isn't going to be putting 50-75 lbs. of weight on the glass since it will weigh less in water.

 

[Scooterman]

IMO if you were doing BB then it would be nice to support the rock off the bottom to allow more circulation. Being your using sand I'd think with all the weight of water, sand and rock is normal and should be an issue. Now if your thinking a plenum, that would be another case of study! :nerd:

Merry Christmas!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

In 25 years of fish keeping and having quite a few of them loaded full of rock for African ciclids. I've never had one blow out or break due to a rock touching the bottom.

How much rock do you plan to put into how big of a tank? I'm pretty sure that "people" who put egg crate under their rocks are far and few between. "People" who have had the bottoms break out are even a more rare breed.

Agreed. If ever concerned, better to fully support the bottom from below with a thin layer of rigid insulation over plywood.

 

[Derbird]

Agreed. If ever concerned, better to fully support the bottom from below with a thin layer of rigid insulation over plywood.

This is also a point of concern. The Marineland stand that came with it is open top. A little strange

 

[CarlaW]

You could cut a piece of plywood for that couldn't you?

 

[spieszak]

27 gallon marine land cube? thats my 30 nem tank. stand plenty sturdy. 2 1/2 years for mine without a creak or a whine...(not reinforced) the weight of most glas tanks is carried by the frame...

 

[spieszak]

crap.. this isn't the cube thread i thought it was... ignore the 27 cube crap and have a merry christmas..