In Wall - going for it! - seeking your ideas/feedback/advice

[Scooterman]

Home depot & Lowe's has true unions that you can get on-line at savko for about $20 on the 1 1/2" ball valves, I even swapped balls & O-rings with no issues!
On the drains you want at least one 1 1/2" man It is worth it, big PVC yea & don't reduce it when you plumb it.

 

[trido]

I don't know if it is worth the savings, IMHO.
I would want the extra flow.

Not to be argumentive because I also think every GPH of flow counts but....
Keep in mind that CC only has a 40G sump shown on pg16. If you try to run 2000GPH through it I can almost guarantee you that there will be micro bubbles in the display tank. JMO

 

[class clown]

thanks everyone. this is all good info. I can't believe there is so much to this plumbing stuff.. thanks for sticking with me and helping me through it.

The CL returns will be 1 1/2" bulkheads without a doubt, they'll T into a single 1 1/2" before being sucked into the CL pump. Let's call it a closed case on those.

However.. i think we need to spend a little more time looking at the return drains. It's true, my sump is 40-45 gallons, but the real driver is this -- my return pump is an Iwaki 40RLT. It's pressure rated to push 750gph. This should be more than enough for my system. If I'm not going to push more than 750 up the pipe, I'm not going to need more of this going down, right?

that said, If i have 2 1" drain pipes gravity fed, that's 600 * 2 =1200 gph. If I was going to have them meet at a T, it'd have to be a 1 x 1/2" tee or wye. B/c if it was just a straight 1" tee, i'd be restricted to 600 gph? the 1 1/2" tee or wye would give me 1300gph. So I don't see why I'd need the 1 1/2" bulkheads on the return line.

 

[rocket]

ok I messed with it a little, I will try to add the rest of your plumbing tomorrow. So far, does this look like what your after?

 

[NC2WA]

Trido,

I like a good healthy debate; it sharpens the mind

I guess my point to Ben was he needs to decide how much GPH he wants in his tank and then acquire the proper plumbing hardware.

 

[Scooterman]

Nice Rocket, that is what I'm talking about, it will help big time, what program are you modeling in?

 

[class clown]

ok I messed with it a little, I will try to add the rest of your plumbing tomorrow. So far, does this look like what your after?

Oh Man Nathan.. that is a thing of freaking beauty. Yes, that's represents exactly what I'm going for. Nice work & thank you. Can't wait to see what it looks like w/ the other plumbing parts in.

 

[Scooterman]

The CL returns will be 1 1/2" bulkheads without a doubt, they'll T into a single 1 1/2" before being sucked into the CL pump. Let's call it a closed case on those.

No we can't! First problem If you go with a Dart you have to go in with 2" on the suction & 1 1/2" on the outlet as far as you can withtout reduction, so your input to the O.M. should be 1 1/2" in & at least two ports always open with flow otherwise your wasting gph, look into that careful, these pump will restrict easily as they aren't pressure rated. Remember this, you can go smaller on the outlet & reduce GPH but you gain a chance of heat & more even though super tiny more power consumed. So you need to take the two 1 1/2" suctions & increase Up to a 2" header then 2" BV with a union then into the pump, you can go to Lowe's or HD for the parts & they work well & are cheaper than online for the same parts.

However.. i think we need to spend a little more time looking at the return drains. It's true, my sump is 40-45 gallons, but the real driver is this -- my return pump is an Iwaki 40RLT. It's pressure rated to push 750gph. This should be more than enough for my system. If I'm not going to push more than 750 up the pipe, I'm not going to need more of this going down, right?

that said, If i have 2 1" drain pipes gravity fed, that's 600 * 2 =1200 gph. If I was going to have them meet at a T, it'd have to be a 1 x 1/2" tee or wye. B/c if it was just a straight 1" tee, i'd be restricted to 600 gph? the 1 1/2" tee or wye would give me 1300gph. So I don't see why I'd need the 1 1/2" bulkheads on the return line.

Becasue I said so

No really two 1" drains into a small sump or two 1 1/2" drains into a small sump doesn't matter the pump will drive the amount of flow draining into the BH's. I only have one 1 1/2" drain on my big tank, sorta wish I had another but really it works well, it collects detritus easily as two smaller 1" drains will build up detritus over time & will not drain as well, go bigger even though you don't use the full amount of drain potential. What happens if some sort of rush of water comes into your tank, you would want it to go down into the sump first right, another back up of safety also is a benefit of having a larger drain, now if you do one or two that is up to you, two doesn't hurt but you can do well with just one big one also.

 

[Scooterman]

Oh and last, the two 1 1/2" suctions for the CL pump, if your going with the Dart that plumbing is going to be big, If you keep them separated like you have you will pull all your hair out trying to fit all of your wile & crazy plumbing, again go look at my thread in the showcase & look at my 2" BV, small tiny pump, & the two suctions, then recently I even made the suction box that works well, it is a copy of Big-T's design, lovin it!

 

[class clown]

Scooty - dangit. You're right. I would've thought the dart would've had the same inlet/outlet as the hammerhead. I certianly wouldn't of thought it'd been bigger, but it is.

I was doing some product comparing and here's what I found:

Dart
Inlet/outlet = 2"/1.5"
3600 gph
1.4A/160W = $14.02 month
$229.99

vs.

Hammerhead
inlet/outlet = 1.5"/1.5"
5800 gph
3.0A/350W = $30.66 month
$329.99

I think it was mentioned on here once before that we thought it was worth it to have the bigger pump for extra flow. Is that still the consensus? Or is the Dart enough?

 

[Scooterman]

I have no quarrels with having two pumps but two darts will take big plumbing, you would consume about the same power with just one big pump if you need it. I was looking at my Loc-line nozzles and as trido mentioned I have wide flares on all of the bottom to break it up & blow the bottom clean but up top all straight Loc-line, some with & some without the straight nozzle, guess I never made up my mind but the flow hits the front really well & bounces back great. Your tank is two foot deeper than mine, that is the only difference, I would think the dart's 3600 gph compared to my 4200 gph won't be enough for your tank alone. Remember the pump I have is the SQ4200SW it is the exact motor (tiny) as the dart but the Centrifugal Pump is larger, draws a slight more power but you get 600gph if you don't restrict the flow In & out of the pump. So you need to decide, plumb Two Darts Or 4200's or plumb one big pump, it is a big pump when put side by side (3 times larger almost, than the dart)!

 

[rocket]

Morning Guys, I see the conversation is moving right along. I gotta remember this stuff when the time rolls around for me to upgrade.

Scoot, right now I'm using AutoCAD to model the tank. Its a little cumbersome but it gets the job done. I would like to use sketch-up, just haven't had the time to sit down and play with it.

 

[trido]

they'll T into a single 1 1/2" before being sucked into the CL pump. Let's call it a closed case on those.

I would recommend "T"-ing
them into a 2" pipe. The dart has a 2" opening and output and even if you use the hammerhead or barracuda it will help with pipe friction and increase flow.
AS far as the overflows and returns, IMO the 1" drains should be fine. I would leave these split and feed only one directly into the skimmer and let the other feed the fuge or maybe a frag tank. If you look at all of the AGA tanks they are standard with 1" drains because 1000GPH through a sump to clean, filter and heat the water is adequate for most tanks. A general rule of thumb is to only run through the sump what the skimmer can handle. I think that most reefers go overboard on this and I am just as guilty as the rest. I guess my point is that alot of flow through the sump isnt that big of a deal,its not the critical element of the tank. You just need some flow. It is however, IMO critical that the skimmer polish every bit of water that you do run through the sump for happy SPS corals.

 

[class clown]

CL Plumbing Decision: Hammerhead is Main driver

For the CL - from the drains working down to the pump, here's what I figure I'll need:
(2) 1 1/2" Strainers
(2) 1 1/2" schedule 40 bulkheads FPT & slip
(2) 1 1/2" 90 elbows
(2) 1 1/2" slip to MPT adapters
(2) 1 1/2" schedule 80 bulkheads FPT & FPT
(2) 1 1/2" male FPT to slip adapters
8 ft 1 1/2" PVC
6ft 1 1/2" spaflex
(1) 1 1/2" 45 degree elbow
(1) 1 1/2" wye
(1) 1/2" 90 elbow
(1) 1 1/2" threaded true union ball valve
(1) Sequence Reeflo Hammerhead


Then from the hammerhead back up to the display, here's what I think I'll need:
(1) 1 1/2" threaded true union ball valve
3ft 1 1/2" PVC
(1) 4 way Oceans Motions
(4) 1" MPT x slip adapters to attach to OM
(4) 45 degree elbows
8 ft 1" spa flex
(4 more) 45 degree slip elbows
(4) 1" slip ball valves
(4) 1" schedule 80 bulkheads (FPT X slip)
2 ft 1" PVC
(2) MPT 1 " MPT to slip adapters
(2) 1 " 90 elbows
(2) 1 " schedule 40 bulkheads
(2) Omni Dual Nozzle - 1 inch (2 Section Nozzle)
(2) Omni Nozzle - Threaded Male (2 Section)

Holy macral! that's a lot of plumbing :razz: :idea: :| :shock:

 

[class clown]

I would recommend "T"-ing
them into a 2" pipe. The dart has a 2" opening and output and even if you use the hammerhead or barracuda it will help with pipe friction and increase flow.
AS far as the overflows and returns, IMO the 1" drains should be fine. I would leave these split and feed only one directly into the skimmer and let the other feed the fuge or maybe a frag tank. If you look at all of the AGA tanks they are standard with 1" drains because 1000GPH through a sump to clean, filter and heat the water is adequate for most tanks. A general rule of thumb is to only run through the sump what the skimmer can handle. I think that most reefers go overboard on this and I am just as guilty as the rest. I guess my point is that alot of flow through the sump isnt that big of a deal,its not the critical element of the tank. You just need some flow. It is however, IMO critical that the skimmer polish every bit of water that you do run through the sump for happy SPS corals.

Duane- I was working on that drawing/parts list you see before i got this message. I'm going hammerhead baby! and it has a 1 1/2" inlet do I just put a 2 to 1 1/2" reducer on just before the pump?

Also. I'm thinking about doing the BM 250 now vs. the AE400. It's a thing of beauty. I'm to chicken to put a whole in it. I would consider that with the AE 400, but I think I've ruled that out based on the reviews the pumps have been getting and the need for a larger sump.

 

[trido]

Holy macral! that's a lot of plumbing

I like this kind of plumbing. Its alot more fun than ABS or copper in a crawl space.

I'm to chicken to put a whole in it.

Im not. Remember, Im a mod mad man. I have a new euro reef sitting in the box just waiting for me to cut two holes in it. I also have extra uni seals here if you change your mind.

And yes, simply put a 2"to 1.5" slip to MPT reducer at the pump.

 

[class clown]

Now for the return. the iwaki 40RLT (750gph- pressure rated) is my driver.

From the drains down to the sump, here's what I figure I'll need:

(2) 1" durso stand pipes (threaded bottom)
(2) 1" schedule 80 bulkheads (FPT x FPT)
(2) 1" MPT to slip addapters
1 ft of 1" PVC
(1) 1" 45 degree elbow
3ft of 1" spa flex
(1) 1" to 1 1/2" wye
6-8ft of 1 1/2" PVC (Spa flex may be the way to go b/c it's so long and there is a good propensity of it getting bumped/moved)
(2) 1 1/2" 45 degree elbow
(2) 1 1/2" 90 degree elbows (may need so can hook on back of sump)

then, I already have the pump hooked up to sump w/ 1 1/2" bulkhead, ball valve and strainer. the pumps output is only 3/4" big.

What I figure I'd need from the pump back up to the tank is:
(1) 3/4" to 1" adapter
(1) 1" 90 degree elbow
8-12 ft of 1" PVC
(1) 1 " true union ball valve (slip)
(5) 1" socket to socket elbows (can't see it in the drawing below, but there will be a lot of bends in the pipe, first traveling along the ground, then up the wall, then over the tank, and down in the center top of the tank)
(1) 3/4" to 1" FPT to socket adapter
(1) locline link
(1) locline Y splitter
(2) 3" Fan heads


here's my drraawring..

Man.. that's a lot of plumbing too. :razz:

 

[class clown]

Revised CL diagram w/ Duane's suggesiton of opening it up to 2" after the wye or Tee.

the new full closed loop parts list is as follows:

For the CL - from the drains working down to the pump:
(2) 1 1/2" Strainers
(2) 1 1/2" schedule 40 bulkheads FPT & slip
(2) 1 1/2" 90 elbows
(2) 1 1/2" slip to MPT adapters
(2) 1 1/2" schedule 80 bulkheads FPT & FPT
(2) 1 1/2" male FPT to slip adapters
8 ft 1 1/2" PVC
6ft 1 1/2" spaflex
(1) 1 1/2" 45 degree elbow
(1) 1 1/2" by 2" wye
(1) 2" 90 degree elbow
(2) 2" slip to thread adapter
(1) 2" threaded true union ball valve
(1) 2" to 1 1/2" slip to thread adapter
(1) Sequence Reeflo Hammerhead


Then from the hammerhead back up to the display, here's what I need:
(1) 1 1/2" threaded true union ball valve
3ft 1 1/2" PVC
(1) 4 way Oceans Motions
(4) 1" MPT x slip adapters to attach to OM
(4) 45 degree elbows
8 ft 1" spa flex
(4 more) 45 degree slip elbows
(4) 1" slip ball valves
(4) 1" schedule 80 bulkheads (FPT X slip)
2 ft 1" PVC
(2) MPT 1 " MPT to slip adapters
(2) 1 " 90 elbows
(2) 1 " schedule 40 bulkheads
(2) Omni Dual Nozzle - 1 inch (2 Section Nozzle)
(2) Omni Nozzle - Threaded Male (2 Section)


sheesh :doubt: :lol: :exclaim: :evil: :idea: :?:

 

[Elmo18]

Looks like Legos I think that will be nice Ben!

Best,
Ilham

 

[Scooterman]

Getting better every day, I would move the 2" "Y" as close up as you can the better.