new sump
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Scooterman
Well-known member
Sump design can get very fancy and become a choir to clean, I separated the baffles enough to get the siphon in between but I've seen where the baffle were reversed the first one was high with the gap at the bottom and the middle one water went over the top so you could clean it easily.
If you can get your detritus to go into the sump effectively then the ideal sump design is to make it so you can process a much suspended detritus possible, so low flow, baffles, helps keep it there until it can get removed or treated. Again I was just pointing out the use of the baffles, not saying you had to have them. It doesn't hurt to do your sump as you say, if it works for you then great, if not then maybe a change in design would help but either way it isn't a bad idea to experiment and see what works for you.
If you can get your detritus to go into the sump effectively then the ideal sump design is to make it so you can process a much suspended detritus possible, so low flow, baffles, helps keep it there until it can get removed or treated. Again I was just pointing out the use of the baffles, not saying you had to have them. It doesn't hurt to do your sump as you say, if it works for you then great, if not then maybe a change in design would help but either way it isn't a bad idea to experiment and see what works for you.
yep, which is exactly what i asked you do.
i still don't think i've heard an argument that is making me question going without...but i appreciate the explanations and opinions. always help to hear what others are thinking..
if the saints do end uo winning, and then winning 2 more, do you think sean payton will get a bronze statue on bourbon street? its literally insane to me to think about the difference with the team when he wasn't around...
Scooterman
Well-known member
Scooterman
Well-known member
I think the saints needs to focus on the next game, they are off and on and horrible when away from home.
With newer technology for skimmers, at least the one I have , they are not dependent on water height to function properly. This hobby is alot like the technology field, things seem to change daily and it may be entirely possible that the use of baffles may be almost antiquated. As I said, my skimmer is not dependent on water height, and the newer flow designs may be making baffles a thing of the past, who knows. I know I repeated myself, sorry bout that, it's early and I need more coffee .
Nice subject tho!!!
.Nice subject tho!!!
Scooterman
Well-known member
Yea what worked 20 years isn't necessarily the best way anymore, that is true, I'm Baffled by baffles!
With newer technology for skimmers, at least the one I have , they are not dependent on water height to function properly. This hobby is alot like the technology field, things seem to change daily and it may be entirely possible that the use of baffles may be almost antiquated. As I said, my skimmer is not dependent on water height, and the newer flow designs may be making baffles a thing of the past, who knows. I know I repeated myself, sorry bout that, it's early and I need more coffee
Nice subject tho!!!
NC2WA
Well-known member
Stacey
I aspire to the old management theory, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"..
the majority of my LR is from tampasaltwater..it is more dense then most rock and does come with some hitchhikers..if you are OK with then, then it is good rock.
I aspire to the old management theory, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"..
the majority of my LR is from tampasaltwater..it is more dense then most rock and does come with some hitchhikers..if you are OK with then, then it is good rock.
LOL..................... yeah, I like that theory!
That is the only drawback to TBS rock really, the hitchhikers. My preference is for the more porous South Pacific rock, but hey, if it works I am good with it.
NC2WA
Well-known member
well, I got this rock from TBS 15+ yrs ago, no hitchhikers on it now, but I assume this is still the case.
well, I got this rock from TBS 15+ yrs ago, no hitchhikers on it now, but I assume this is still the case.
Who knows and there is only one way to figure it out
.To the TBS rock and hitchhikers. I've given up on the the idea that we can really prevent hitchhikers. I've watched build thread after build thread where people have gone with dry rock rather than deal with them, and it all 'works', but then they add a live rock to seed, or eventually frags, and things begin to creep in. Now, I do understand that we are talking about the 'degree' of hitchhikers. A little aiptasia or bubble algae are a completely different thing than a mantis, teddy bear crab or bryprosis. But I wonder sometimes if by creating a more 'sterile' system we aren't only limiting the hitchhikers, but also limiting the tiny little things that help to keep the hitchhikers in check. Mother nature loves balance, and you can see it in everything you look at, its when changes occur, or when we step in, that things get out of balance. So, by forgoing live rock, unless your doing QT on each and everything that you add to you tank, for extended amounts of time, you aren't avoiding the hitch hikers, you are just delaying them for the most part... and you are passing on the chance to introduce a multitude of bacterial strains, into the tank. We just can't mimic the depths and pressures along with the lack of oxygenation and light that the actual ocean produces. If 1 of 1000 strains of bacteria that develop in those conditions can survive and adapt (like a deep water fish species can) to our tanks, that seems more important to me than what is more often than not just the inconvenience of a hitchhiker. You can get really bad stuff, no doubt, no argument, and it can be much more than an inconvenience... I don't think I'd ever do it on a DT because of the logistics and challenges of trying to remove some of this stuff. On a 20 long fuge that I will keep offline for a fallow period, which I can monitor and just nuke with bleach if necessary, it seems a chance worth taking.
The other day in my work pico that hasn't had a new addition other than a snail from my DT in over a year and a half, some new algae popped up. It small right now, and its nearly impossible to get a picture in the pico, but it looks almost like clover, or lilly pads with a long stock and a flat leafy type top. I've never seen it before in my tanks or in pictures, and 'ID please' threads are some of my favorites on forums.. not that that makes me an expert, just that it makes me less prone to not have an idea what the 'normal' things are. I've also done a decent amount of research on macros as I look towards stocking the fuge. It has some similarity to the sea grasses, although the stock looks more like a codium variety, but looks more like freshwater plants that I've seen than anything I've seen in saltwater. I probably shouldn't, but I've chosen to let it grow a bit, so that I can see what it turns into. Then I look at brine shrimp eggs. Some have been on the shelf since 1974 when they were packaged as 'sea monkeys' in the back of magazines. Find one of those old packages at a garage sale, take it home, soak them in bleach if you want (decap).. then drop them in warm salty water, and 2 days later... life. Its things like this that make me realize while dry rock lays the odds in your favor of NOT picking up something you don't want, its no guarantee either. So, to what degree are we saving ourselves, and to what degree are we limiting ourselves?
I'm not in any way proposing we throw caution to the wind and just start dumping things into our tanks. I QT my fish, and in some cases prophetically treat. I dip my corals, and on some rare occasions actually QT them... I try to lay the odds in my favor, but I'm not naive enough to think that those steps are going to work 100% of the time. So, in a lot of ways, I guess I see the TBS rock in the same way. Risk/reward. If I end up with just one more thing that swings my tank towards the natural balance nature creates, is it worth the 10 things I might not want to have. And all the while, while I make this argument for, I still haven't completely decided that it is the route that I will take because caution urges me to limit the damage and disease it may cause. If I do get it, it won't be something I've taken lightly, and if things go badly, I will only have myself to blame for not listening to caution....
Man that is a long diatribe on a subject not even totally relevant to the thread, but it seemed worth explaining the thought process.
The other day in my work pico that hasn't had a new addition other than a snail from my DT in over a year and a half, some new algae popped up. It small right now, and its nearly impossible to get a picture in the pico, but it looks almost like clover, or lilly pads with a long stock and a flat leafy type top. I've never seen it before in my tanks or in pictures, and 'ID please' threads are some of my favorites on forums.. not that that makes me an expert, just that it makes me less prone to not have an idea what the 'normal' things are. I've also done a decent amount of research on macros as I look towards stocking the fuge. It has some similarity to the sea grasses, although the stock looks more like a codium variety, but looks more like freshwater plants that I've seen than anything I've seen in saltwater. I probably shouldn't, but I've chosen to let it grow a bit, so that I can see what it turns into. Then I look at brine shrimp eggs. Some have been on the shelf since 1974 when they were packaged as 'sea monkeys' in the back of magazines. Find one of those old packages at a garage sale, take it home, soak them in bleach if you want (decap).. then drop them in warm salty water, and 2 days later... life. Its things like this that make me realize while dry rock lays the odds in your favor of NOT picking up something you don't want, its no guarantee either. So, to what degree are we saving ourselves, and to what degree are we limiting ourselves?
I'm not in any way proposing we throw caution to the wind and just start dumping things into our tanks. I QT my fish, and in some cases prophetically treat. I dip my corals, and on some rare occasions actually QT them... I try to lay the odds in my favor, but I'm not naive enough to think that those steps are going to work 100% of the time. So, in a lot of ways, I guess I see the TBS rock in the same way. Risk/reward. If I end up with just one more thing that swings my tank towards the natural balance nature creates, is it worth the 10 things I might not want to have. And all the while, while I make this argument for, I still haven't completely decided that it is the route that I will take because caution urges me to limit the damage and disease it may cause. If I do get it, it won't be something I've taken lightly, and if things go badly, I will only have myself to blame for not listening to caution....
Man that is a long diatribe on a subject not even totally relevant to the thread, but it seemed worth explaining the thought process.
NC2WA
Well-known member
Stacey
Whoa!!!! You'd make one helluva therapist..damn what a reply
:-D
Whoa!!!! You'd make one helluva therapist..damn what a reply
:-D
No kidding, I had to refill my coffee cup twice
As to the sump, my biggest problem with baffles given I have been able to work without them is that they aren't movable for the most part, and the few strategies to make them movable seem to result in them not serving their purpose anyway by leaking or not sealing correctly. I've thought about the 'weather stripping' baffles that some have had success with, but since they are movable and removable, I could as easily add them after the fact as before... so, why do them before? If I glue baffles down the 'correct' way, and end up unhappy with them (we're talking acrylic, so not just siliconing in glass that I can razor blade out) my best bet would be to cut them out.
So, the argument for here that has made me reconsider a bit here has been being able to catch detritus. The rock wall I have does so, but Scoot is right the rock can get pretty nasty at times. Being able to capture some of that stuff before it gets to the rock could be a benefit. I keep a pretty low flow through the sump though, and a lot of things settle out before they get to the rock. That is the compromise I think, but am now considering how I might be able to catch more before it gets there. I don't know if that requires a full out baffle approach though, and I will have to let that percolate a bit more before making a decision either way. I wonder if I might be by means of keeping my reactors in sump some 'speed bumps' along the way for the detritus that has kept it from overwhelming the rocks, and by moving to more open space if I might be end up with more actually making it there. This is definitely something I need to consider that I really hadn't previously.
So, the argument for here that has made me reconsider a bit here has been being able to catch detritus. The rock wall I have does so, but Scoot is right the rock can get pretty nasty at times. Being able to capture some of that stuff before it gets to the rock could be a benefit. I keep a pretty low flow through the sump though, and a lot of things settle out before they get to the rock. That is the compromise I think, but am now considering how I might be able to catch more before it gets there. I don't know if that requires a full out baffle approach though, and I will have to let that percolate a bit more before making a decision either way. I wonder if I might be by means of keeping my reactors in sump some 'speed bumps' along the way for the detritus that has kept it from overwhelming the rocks, and by moving to more open space if I might be end up with more actually making it there. This is definitely something I need to consider that I really hadn't previously.
This is how I managed to never care about the length of papers in school... I apparently have lots of words, even if they have little meaning.
And possibly, quite possibly, it means i NEED a helluva therapist.
After you get done with this thread w are gonna need a therapist
Scooterman
Well-known member
You could just use filter socks and change them out often, they catch so much it is crazy.
NC2WA
Well-known member
Stacey,
well I wasn't going to go there..
so you are the person my professor in college told me about..
True story...
Student submitted a 10 paper with tons of research but only received a "C", when asked by the student why such a low grade, the professor replied, "to receive a B or higher you need your page needs to be at least 15 pages in length"
so the next paper that was submitted by the student was a 25 page paper that was directly from a newspaper article. the student received an "A".
the professor did not read any of the papers, he just looked at the length and gave a grade from there...so verbosity in this case a good thing even though the paper did not mean anything or at least germane to the project that the paper was based on.
well I wasn't going to go there..
so you are the person my professor in college told me about..
True story...
Student submitted a 10 paper with tons of research but only received a "C", when asked by the student why such a low grade, the professor replied, "to receive a B or higher you need your page needs to be at least 15 pages in length"
so the next paper that was submitted by the student was a 25 page paper that was directly from a newspaper article. the student received an "A".
the professor did not read any of the papers, he just looked at the length and gave a grade from there...so verbosity in this case a good thing even though the paper did not mean anything or at least germane to the project that the paper was based on.
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