seedlessinseattle
Well-known member
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OBD Signature Protein Skimmer Owners Forum
- Thread starter Ichthys
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seedlessinseattle
Well-known member
Good news my Skimmer is doing great, is not going crazy anymore ony when is feeding time or when I do cleaning, thank's to the good advice from all the nice people in the best feeding site
seedlessinseattle
Well-known member
Reefing (excuse my clumsy fingerr lol
Great thread! I'm glad I found this as its hard to find others with the same skimmer. I do have a few questions though. My tank is 120 gallons with a 55 gallon sump (probably running about 25-30 gallons in the sump). I have had my skimmer running for about a month now. I didnt soak it in vinegar but i did wipe down the body of the skimmer with vinegar before setting it up.
I, like a previous poster, have issues with inconsistent skimming. At night, it seems to "go crazy" and fills up the collection cup with a VERY wet skim. During the day the bubble column goes up to just above the connection between the body and the collection cup. Any suggestions? I dont have the air flow restricted at all and have some fans on the air pump to keep it cool as it seems to get pretty warm without them. Would the change in temperature in my house cause this effect (78 during the day, 74 at night)?
I emailed OBD but havent gotten a response yet.
Any suggestions on what to do? I'd hate to open the gate valve any more due to it not doing anything during the day, but then again maybe this skimmer is only designed to work at night...
Thanks for the input!
I, like a previous poster, have issues with inconsistent skimming. At night, it seems to "go crazy" and fills up the collection cup with a VERY wet skim. During the day the bubble column goes up to just above the connection between the body and the collection cup. Any suggestions? I dont have the air flow restricted at all and have some fans on the air pump to keep it cool as it seems to get pretty warm without them. Would the change in temperature in my house cause this effect (78 during the day, 74 at night)?
I emailed OBD but havent gotten a response yet.
Any suggestions on what to do? I'd hate to open the gate valve any more due to it not doing anything during the day, but then again maybe this skimmer is only designed to work at night...
Thanks for the input!
txaggie09 you have to look at the skimmer as a mechanically constant thing. It pushes the same amount of air and water during the day as it does over night. What does change from lighted periods to dark periods is the chemistry in the reef tank. In the evening you will get more blooms in regards to algae and bacteria, also you will get more spawning in regards to snails, worms and similar. During the day you will get more organic uptake from the critters in your tank that use photosynthesis, such as corals and higher form algae's.
The difference. This skimmer is designed to maximize contact time while providing the required amount of air mix required to break down protein chains, mechanically cleave dirty water moles and then chemically reattach them to clean air bubbles. So a simplier way of saying that is that most skimmers dont have the contact time or bombardment rate required to actually PROTEIN skim and instead (because the supply air and water from the same source and are dependent on each other) so they basically freight train the foam and just particulate is carried out to the skimmer bowl. Because this skimmer has the contact time and the correct bombardment rate not only will it carry the particulate out via the foam column but it will have the time and process to break down protein chains and dissolved organics that are in your water column. The reason you are seeing more foaming at night then during the day is that the tank is producing more dissolved organics and proteins (as reasoned above) during the dark periods.
The fix. So what we know in your case is that their are alot more organics and proteins available to the skimmer during the dark period as seen by the reaction of your skimmer. With that you want to adjust the water level in the skimmer so that it does not overflow in the evenings, a good starting point is to have the water level just above the black ring at the base of the fluted portion of the skimmer, and then work from their. Eventually the skimmer will reduce the amount of proteins and dissolved organics from your tank and you will see a balance in your skimming between light and dark periods.
Other things to note. So in your reef you feed the fish and so on, the food you feed will first kill all skimming as the oils will not allow for the formation of surfactants that allow a bubble to form (same will happen if you put your hands in the tanks). It takes a bit of time for this to pass which makes it slightly inconsistant, also those foods that are not eaten and the poop (which is 90% of what the fish eats) the fish generate during the day will take time to be reduced to a dissolved state (so more in the evening) which will add to the equation. Also in the evening when the lights turn off your going to get a massive change in photosynthesis, as in very little during the dark period, this will reduce the oxygen production and lower your ph. This will also have an effect on how things work biologically in the mixing chamber of the skimmer.
So bottom line, adjust your skimmer to make it so it does not overflow in the evening. As time goes by the skimmer will reduce the overall organics and protein level in the tank so that their is not such a big jump from lighted to dark periods and from their you will not notice a big change in production during the evening (unless of coarse you have spawning events)
hope it helped
mike
The difference. This skimmer is designed to maximize contact time while providing the required amount of air mix required to break down protein chains, mechanically cleave dirty water moles and then chemically reattach them to clean air bubbles. So a simplier way of saying that is that most skimmers dont have the contact time or bombardment rate required to actually PROTEIN skim and instead (because the supply air and water from the same source and are dependent on each other) so they basically freight train the foam and just particulate is carried out to the skimmer bowl. Because this skimmer has the contact time and the correct bombardment rate not only will it carry the particulate out via the foam column but it will have the time and process to break down protein chains and dissolved organics that are in your water column. The reason you are seeing more foaming at night then during the day is that the tank is producing more dissolved organics and proteins (as reasoned above) during the dark periods.
The fix. So what we know in your case is that their are alot more organics and proteins available to the skimmer during the dark period as seen by the reaction of your skimmer. With that you want to adjust the water level in the skimmer so that it does not overflow in the evenings, a good starting point is to have the water level just above the black ring at the base of the fluted portion of the skimmer, and then work from their. Eventually the skimmer will reduce the amount of proteins and dissolved organics from your tank and you will see a balance in your skimming between light and dark periods.
Other things to note. So in your reef you feed the fish and so on, the food you feed will first kill all skimming as the oils will not allow for the formation of surfactants that allow a bubble to form (same will happen if you put your hands in the tanks). It takes a bit of time for this to pass which makes it slightly inconsistant, also those foods that are not eaten and the poop (which is 90% of what the fish eats) the fish generate during the day will take time to be reduced to a dissolved state (so more in the evening) which will add to the equation. Also in the evening when the lights turn off your going to get a massive change in photosynthesis, as in very little during the dark period, this will reduce the oxygen production and lower your ph. This will also have an effect on how things work biologically in the mixing chamber of the skimmer.
So bottom line, adjust your skimmer to make it so it does not overflow in the evening. As time goes by the skimmer will reduce the overall organics and protein level in the tank so that their is not such a big jump from lighted to dark periods and from their you will not notice a big change in production during the evening (unless of coarse you have spawning events)
hope it helped
mike
Mike, thanks for that detailed response. It makes a lot of sense. Yesterday I adjusted the water level just above the black ring. I woke up this morning and there was a nice foam of bubbles right at the top of the collection cup! So, so far so good. It was nice to not have a cup filled with saltwater. I guess I just assumed that it should be skimming all day and obviously having it adjusted to skim during the day made it go crazy at night. I will let it run like this for a while and hope it evens out.
Thanks for the input!
Do yall have any bio-pellet reactors available yet?
mfinn
Surgeonfish
Well, after more than a month, I am still getting very wet skimming.
I tried opening the valve all the way and even removing the valve completely and the water level in the skimmer is halfway up the transition.
I figure I have 2 choices.
One which I can, but don't want to do, is to raise the skimmer higher in my sump, by building a platform for the skimmer to sit on.
Thus making a higher head level for the feed pump.
The other would be to restrict the amount of water the feed pump is pumping.
Adding a valve to the feed water line seems to be the logical choice. But where do you find a gate valve for a plastic tube that is 3/8" inside dia.?
Marty the feed pump should eventually turn into a 1/2 pvc at some point depending on how you have it plumbed. As in the pipe that goes into the skimmer is 1/2 inch. Also did you check the valve that you used for the air?? again not sure how you have it plumbed but that valve might work on the water side.
On skimmers that allow for air and water to be introduced separately, to take full advantage you really want valves on both air and water inputs.
Mike
On skimmers that allow for air and water to be introduced separately, to take full advantage you really want valves on both air and water inputs.
Mike
mfinn
Surgeonfish
I don't have a valve on the air.
My thinking on that is I want all the air possible going into the body. More is better?
For some reason, I thought the water inlet lines would be glued. But after a little twisting I see the top 90 could be removed and a regular pvc valve installed at that point.
What I also did was to pull apart the water exit pipes.
As soon as I removed all but the vertical riser pipe that water level dropped to just under the black ring.
So, I pulled it out and measured it. It is 9".
I went out to the shop and cut a 1" piece of pvc 9-5/8" and stuck it in.
Now the water level in the skimmer body ( with the air off) goes just about a 1/4" to 3/8" above that black ring.
I may leave it as it is for a while. See what happens.
The opening of that 9-5/8" pipe is about 1-1/2" above the water level in my sump.
My thinking on that is I want all the air possible going into the body. More is better?
For some reason, I thought the water inlet lines would be glued. But after a little twisting I see the top 90 could be removed and a regular pvc valve installed at that point.
What I also did was to pull apart the water exit pipes.
As soon as I removed all but the vertical riser pipe that water level dropped to just under the black ring.
So, I pulled it out and measured it. It is 9".
I went out to the shop and cut a 1" piece of pvc 9-5/8" and stuck it in.
Now the water level in the skimmer body ( with the air off) goes just about a 1/4" to 3/8" above that black ring.
I may leave it as it is for a while. See what happens.
The opening of that 9-5/8" pipe is about 1-1/2" above the water level in my sump.
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No no my friend, you want to have about 25% air to water, when you go above that you get saturation which leads to the bubbles poping and then joining together. And when the join they drop the organics attached.
Yea we dont glue those pipes together as everyone has something a little different going on in their sumps, so this way it give you a chance to change things without having to cut pipe. In testing I have found that having the water level right at or just below the black ring when their is no air is the sweet spot, or at least the perfect place to start final dial in.
Mike
mfinn
Surgeonfish
Ok so I will look for a valve for the air inlet.
That will have to be a 3/8" gate or needle valve.
I'll alos look for a 1/2" gate valve for the water inlet as well.
That will have to be a 3/8" gate or needle valve.
I'll alos look for a 1/2" gate valve for the water inlet as well.
We have 1/2 gates at the shop and on the air I just use the ones they have at McClendons Hardware, they are basically a small balll type valve but it has compression type barbs on either end. Cant remember the name but you can find them in the RO/DI section or with the John Guest type fittings their.
Mike
Mike
mfinn
Surgeonfish
Cool thanks Mike.
mfinn
Surgeonfish
Ok so you take a measure of where the air and water mix (basically the whole skimmer where water, air and both are in), then you turn off the air and see if the column goes down about a 1/4. You dont have to be exact but that gets you close. That should give you a ballpark idea on how much of the overall column is both air and water mix and just air. So as an example say the mix of air is about 25% (so good) but your still getting to wet, you would simply dial both air input and water input back a touch. If you were getting to dry you would open the water input a bit more.
mfinn
Surgeonfish
So, you actually do need to get fairly sensitive valves for minor tweeks on either.
No Marty just get close, if it has a bit to much air or water its not that critical. Also remember things are changing both short and long term in your tank so from time to time you will need to tinker even after dialing in.
Mike
Mike
mfinn
Surgeonfish
Thanks again Mike
