Red Bugs - Inevitable?

[reedman]

In a nicely balanced tank, the corals might be able to handle the infection and won't show some of the severe symptoms, that some others might see, if their tanks are more skewed towards a stressed coral environment.

I think you hit the nail on the head Nikki. I have had the bugs for quite some time and they are not affecting my corals the way others have see. I am not proud to have the bugs, but I am not as stressed out about them as others are either, as I have not lost a coral or seen loss of color or polyp extension. Growth remains constant too.

I think we are seeing multiple strains of the bugs and different resistances to them. Certainly the initial health of the coral will play a role in the long term affects of the bugs on the corals. I think people really lose sight of husbandry in favor of erradicating one problem that is in front of them. I do believe the bugs do some harm to some corals, but erradicating all crustaceons can't be all that great either.

Great observations though.

 

[NaH2O]

Reed - let me ask you this, since you haven't done the treatment yet, and are unsure about doing one. Do you trade your corals? I can't remember if we've discussed this in the thread yet, but curious to those that don't want to treat. Do you trade frags, and inform the hobbyist of the redbugs, so they can choose what to do? Would you accept a coral infected with redbugs if you had a redbug free tank without treating the frag in QT?

 

[fishermann]

Sarmo I run polypads all the time along with carbon. I treated 2 different times about a year apart because i put a clam in my tank that came from a tank with red bugs i found out later. These things well come in on other items then just acros. Anyway to your questions? I treated both times only once at the reccomended dose and had no bugs return. Look back on about page 7 or 8 , I think I have some post around there. I also used poly pads and carbon afterwards.

 

[reedman]

Nikki,

Yes I have traded and sold to people. I tell them up front that the tank is infected with red bugs, but that I have not seen the effects that others have. They can see that my tank looks healthy. I don't trade much anymore (partly because my tank is close to where I want it to be and partly because most people are horrified by the thought of red bugs).

My fundamental problem with this blanket statement that "red bugs" are bad is that there really isn't enough known about them yet. For instance, are there multiple "red bug" strains? Some bad, some not so bad, maybe even some good? No one has done any high quality (no offence intended to any one who has tried) scientific studies (as Mike pointed out there is no $$ in it).

I mean, I take a multi vitamin because I know that scientists have proven it improves our health, not because 45 people said they felt better with it. I don't guess unless I have to with either my health or my tank.

I don't distribute red bugs to people without telling them what they are and how they might be affected by them, but I also don't blanket statement that they are horrible demons of the tank that will RTN or STN all of their acros like some do. These bugs are in nature just like the flatworms and other "pests", and the corals live...thrive in most cases. I prefer to be prepared for the treatment and wait it out.

 

[Maxx]

Reed, you bring up some valid points about the possibility of different bug types. And if you feel that your tank is healthy, then there is certainly no need to fix what isnt broken....
However, in my case, I could definately see bleaching and less and less polyp extension from my corals, so not treating was not an option for me.
I would also like to point out that not all of the crustaceans in my tank were killed by the treatment. I might have lost some pods, and some micro brittle stars, but I've seen several pods (both amphipods and copepods), and couldnt begin to count the number of microbrittle stars I see on a daily basis in my tank. My diadema urchin was also unaffected by the treatment. As far as the pod count goes, keep in mind my tank is BB so I have traditionally had a smaller pod population to begin with. To my knowledge, the only things affected by the Interceptor treatment in my tank were the bugs, 3 scarlett hermits, an emereld crab, a handful of pods and brittle stars...(BB tank w/ high flow, so the pods and microbrittles tend to stay hidden until the lights go out anyway). I know my corals are healthier since I've eradicated the bugs from my tank, cause they've all started growing again, the bleached spots are recovering, and the polyps are all out again.

Nick

 

[reedman]

Definitely understand that Nick. If I saw bleaching or less than normal polyp extension then I would act. Glad the treatment worked for you and I'm also glad to hear that it didn't kill off all of the crustaceons.

 

[Macbeth417]

I find it interesting/troubling when anyone tries to qualify the value of the specific lives within our tanks, as aquarist as a whole both regularly and actively eradicate a myriad of life forms from their tanks, despite general good nature and conscientious reefing telling us that nothing is an "expectable death." I for one will treat my tanks if needed and will be treating all incoming coral from now on to hopefully eliminate any need for risking the lives of other organism in the tank in the future. I did remove the hermits, shrimp and acro crabs from my tank before treating and placed them in a temporary tank for the duration of treatment. As a note, this treatment did not kill the emerald crab or fireshrimp I could not catch; it is inaccurate to say it kills ALL crustaceans in the tank. I guess I will resolve that each of you will have to determine if you deem it necessary and humane as it relates you your specific tank.

Reed:
As far as whether or not you are being affected, I honestly think your coral COULD look better if you did remove the bugs. Granted they may be up to what you expect, but I would venture that they can improve relative to their current health if you did choose treat. That being said, I fully understand the apprehension about losses and your belief that it is not a necessity for you or your tank.


Just some thoughts from someone who has been keeping fish for most of their life, and has killed many different parasites and other life forms at various levels of aquaria that have been designated by aquarist to be undesirable, including red bugs in my current Acropora.



-Erik

 

[reedman]

Very well stated Erik. I completely understand and agree. I too have been keeping fish for many many years and have dealt with all kinds of parasites. I applaud you for removing the animals you knew would be affected...most do not (it's just not practical for a lot of people).

As far as whether or not you are being affected, I honestly think your coral COULD look better if you did remove the bugs.

This is probably the most accurate statement I have seen. I would venture a guess that you are absolutely correct and that is why I have started the ball rolling on getting the interceptor from the vet.

The biggest drawback to having the bugs for me is that my tank is finally to a stage where I could frag things and give them away to starting hobbiests the same way Chuck, Mike, and countless others did for me.

 

[Maxx]

Reed, if your really concerned about it, just start a frag tank that seperate from your main system and treat it with interceptor... Same concept, only your not affecting the main tank.
One of the local reefers here in STL has an awesome propagation facility in his home. The system consists of 2 custom made glasscages tanks measuring 72Lx24Wx8H, (60 gallons each), two 33 gallon long tanks measuring 48Lx12Wx12H and a 90 gallon tank. The two smaller tanks, (60's and the 33's) are on a common system, with the 90 being seperate from them. His idea was to have a tank that was isolated from the other systems in the event of a meltdown of somesort.
Just another option.....


Although, if it were me, I get the acro crabs out, take the shrimp and hermits out, and dose the main tank.....



Nick

 

[MtnDewMan]

I just started my 2nd treatment. So far all is well with the tank after the first treatment.

 

[CarlaW]

I just finished up with my second treatment this morning. The shrimp really took it on the chin this time. This will be my last treatment I believe.
Good to hear things are goin good for you Chuck.

 

[jlehigh]

I joined in the fun today and performed the first treatment. Definately lost my Acro crabs.. One cleaner shrimp seamed un-phased while the other is MIA at the moment.. All of the red-bugs are MIA though

 

[reedman]

I'm so glad everyone is getting good results. I'm quite excited to see your tank John (post treatment) to see how different it looks. If I can see a noticeable difference (especially in the purple-tip from my tank) I might just take the plunge.

 

[jlehigh]

I'll do my best to point out any changes if they ocurr. That piece from your tank was responding really well to water changes and got many of the pruple tips to come back but not all, and I want the stalk to turn back to yellow too. I'll track the progress..

There have been more changes on my tank in the month of July than the entire year. Reflector change, started weekly water changes, began running Ozone, Red bug treatment, hooked up a CA reactor vs kalk dosing, and I hope to have the new airstone skimmer built.

My tank has never looked better and I hope it continues to progress

 

[mojoreef]

Ok I hate to jump on the wagon but to be honest I have seen a noticable change in coloration of a few of my corals.
The red table has begun to go to a deeper red, not sure which I liked best but it has changed. I have a three deeper water corals that have gone from a limy green color to a much more deeper green, the deeper green was the color it should have been from the past. On a few other corals, stags mainly that had blue or purple tips and now starting to have thier color go farther down the stalks, or those that had color on the stalks already are starting to intencify thier coloration.


anyway just some observations.

Mike

 

[CarlaW]

Has anybody had any problems with their M. capricornis after the treatments??

 

[Illusion]

Nope.. I had just about every cap and mine all did fine...

As for the Color thing your Noticing Mike... My purple Tipped Valida eventually went solid purple after the bugs were gone... There were several corals that I noticed a difference on... The bugs are definetly doing something to the corals to cause the color changes.. Either that or the Interceptor is feeding the coral somehow thats causing the change... Either way It was a change that I liked...

James

 

[sarmo]

so now i done two treatments. all my hermits are gone and i lost some shrimp as well. i want to make an order for more hermits but i am wondering if anybody has restocked soon after the treatment and did they have any trouble form residual Interceptor. or did all the new stuff do well.

yes i have used both carbon and my skimmer since the treatment. just curious about others experience....

any reply would be great, thanks

 

[mojoreef]

Sarmo I am waiting a bit before restocking anything that may have been killed. My plan is at least a month.


Mike

 

[jlehigh]

Dag nabbit... I hate it when crash diets work So I treated the tank last Saturday for the first time. The wife and I left town Sunday and just got back. Of course the first place I go (despite having to piss like a race horse) is my tank. It looks really really good but I wrote it off as being wishfull... Then my wife enters the office who knows nothing about my tank other than I am crazy over it and says "WOW why do your corals look lighter and prettier! They aren't so brown.."

Note:
The color changes were vary apparent in my mileporas, Gomezi Blue (even brighter now), Table, and Tri-color (nana).

Polyp extension was more noticeable on all except the green slimer which never cared about red-bugs I had never seen polyps in most of my colonies unless the lights are out. That also happens to be when the red bugs leave the corals..

I am very suprised, but it is bitter-sweet for me. All acro-crabs and shrimp are either dead or MIA...