treating (trying to) pinched mantle

[Jan]

I posted about this on another thread and also at Barry's Clams Direct forum. But as of yet no response to my actual question...

What is the frequency of FW dipping that is tolerated by sick clams yet will kill this nasty disease entity? It came into my tank with a new derasa (which died) and now my croceas both have it.

I've done 2 FW dips last weekend and am in the midst of another one now. The larger of my two croceas has been excreting white stringy stuff this morning that looks like maybe its digesting its innards...

I would appreciate any insights from people who have had clams with pinched mantle and have managed to save them.

Oh, and I confirmed my "diagnosis" via looking at photos in the James Fatheree book. Ruffly mantle, gaping in-syphon, mucous strings around edge of mantle, ex-syphon looking like its lost 'body,' (edges sort of collapsed against themselves). It's not pretty...

 

[NaH2O]

Good luck, Jan. I lost my clams to pinched mantle. I have a rather lengthy thread on the matter somewhere here. I did frequent FW dips, as well as treating with metronidazole. All to no avail.

Does the white stringy stuff have brown bits attached to it, and it comes out of the excurrent siphon? If so, it may just be expelling its zooxanthellae.

 

[Jan]

I'm sorry to hear that about your clams.

Today the stuff coming out the ex-syphon was pure white. There was quite a lot of it that came out (several times over the course of 1.5 hrs). It wasn't spawning, which I've seen last weekend from the smaller crocea.

Last weekend the black stringy stuff came out of all three clams; Chris&barb said it was probably zooxanthellae.

This afternoon I did the 3rd FW dip of the two croceas and the smaller one opened up about 30 minutes after being back in the tank. The larger crocea has not reopened. For a few hrs there was maybe 1/4" of ruffly mantle protruding. Now there is nothing protruding. Clam has only ~1/8" gap between edges of the shell.

Do you think there's any point in waiting to see what will happen next? Or is this clam a goner and I should take it out before it fouls the water?

 

[NaH2O]

It sounds like the one that is closed isn't going to make it. On mine, once it was closed up like that, and stopped responding to shadows in the tank, I gave them some more time. If my memory serves me correctly (its been 3 years lolol) I think the clams ended up releasing their byssal gland and falling off the rock. I just pulled them out then. The hermits in my tank may have been milling around the clams, too - in anticipation of the finale.

Anyway, here's page 19 of the thread I referred to earlier. If you scroll down to my posts, then you can see when I first noted one clam not opening up anymore. Then you can see how long it was before they were gone: Pinched Mantle - Page 19

 

[Jan]

thanks very much for posting that.

Man, what a bad disease this is. I got the infected derasa from DrsF&S Live Aquaria so I will inform them so they can pay attention to distributor.

So, is Prazi-pro the most effective treatment then? I can dose my new system because it only has a bit of live rock and a skimmer in it; no worms over there yet.

 

[NaH2O]

Jan - I would be leary in using any treatment in anything other than a quarantine situation. If you continue to read through the thread I linked, I believe there is other treatment information in there. I think chris&barb used prazi-pro, and there is some information on using a lot of carbon. Are you running a phosphate remover? If you are, then you may want to take it off. On a side note, I believe Barry is waiting to hear about treatments from the lab that has isolated the protozoan. That will be awesome, because then we can rid this disease once and for all.

 

[Jan]

I tried the "lot of carbon" approach per one of C&B's other thread, and I think all it did was cause one of the clams to spawn....

So, did I read you right that the lab testing the PM clams has isolated the protozoan?

I do have other tanks available for QT so I could use them...I'll keep reading the rest of the thread. Thanks, Nikki

my retracted crocea died this afternoon...trying to keep the remaining two clams alive now. :|

 

[WA coral]

I had a total of 7 clams and lost 5 to pm and was able to save 2 I ended up doing more harm with the fw dips which ended up only helping for a very short time and just put a ton more stress on them I finally figured that I needed to remove them from the tank conditions and isolate them due to the tank needing to be with out a host for some time like ich and I just made up fresh saltwater and mixed in a tuperware bowl matched temp and salinity and half fresh and half from the tank and I did a half water change every day after as to rid the tank water from the tuperware ( oh by the way I just floated the tupperware in the tank as to keep lighting temp the same also I found a mini powerhead and put very light flow in there as well ) It was quite involved but I had lost all hope after the first 5 died so any sucess was good I also found a product called ich attach the supposedly killed protozans and dosed that everytime I did a water change I am not sure if this was a contributeing factor in the clams survival but I did manage to save 2 which I still have 2 years or so later and I have added more clams with no sign of pm .. I am sure you have read all of the hubbub about how you cant diagnose it and I am no pro I was just like you and did trial and error and this worked so I was just trying to pass it along... good luck. andy

 

[Jan]

WA Coral, I want to read the rest of your post....I think it was lost in the ether...

 

[Jan]

Andy, so just to make sure I get what you're saying...

You did a make-shift quarantine in a tupperware bowl floated in your tank. You did a daily water change in that bowl and dosed it with Ich attach as a means to kill protozoans, and that worked for you (?)

How long did you do this treatment process before putting the clam/s back in the regular tank?

 

[WA coral]

Well it has been some time scince I did this but if I remember right I think the info got was that the tank had to be without a host for 30-60 days inorder for the protozans or whatever they were calling the bacteria or parasite to die off I remove all of the clams from my display and yes used a make shift qt tupperware for them and it was just easier to keep conditions similar to the tank as in temp and lighting I and also alot less water to change out instead of setting up an actual qt tank with a seperate halide filter etc. I did the water changes every day for the first week and saw a dramatic improvement along with doseing just enough ich attach to keep it constantly moveing in the water after that I only did water changes 2 times a week and I did this for at least a month if not longer befor I put them back into the display.. like I said before I am not sure if the ich attach had anything to do with the clams recovery but it did say on the bottle that it killed some of the things that were mentioned to be a problem in this disease. and yes it did work for me I still have these clams , weather it was luck or whatever you want to call it I had success I would definatly get them into some kind of qt and at least start doing 50% water changes regularly I got much better and long lasting results than fw dips.. this is all just my expierence so I hope it helps

 

[Jan]

Well, the 3rd clam bit the dust (7" teardrop maxima), there is only 1 left, a 2" crocea. This morning I noticed that it had dropped its foot. Does this mean that it's done-for, too? The Prazi-pro stuff I ordered should arrive today, if it's not too late to treat.

 

[Barry N.]

I would be leary in using any treatment in anything other than a quarantine situation

I agree with that statement!

I will try to get back on here later to provide some info on the PM.

Hey Nikki, What going on girl.

 

[Jan]

bump

particularly interested in the question about clams dropping their feet. Can they survive after that? Regrow them?

Also about treatment with Prazi-pro. Tonight may be my last chance...

thanks

 

[WA coral]

I have had a couple of clams survive after the foot is droped it isnt a good sign but I have seen good looking clams do this after some knid of stress and come out fine it will reattach after some time if it survives

 

[Jan]

that's good to hear.

I set up my 10g QT and started dosing the Prazi-pro for the 1 remaining crocea. (I found a brief summary of the treatment on post #313 of the thread Nikki posted.) The instructions on the bottle say to pull out GAC/GFO, and to not use a skimmer, but to "continue filtration." I wonder what that means? The only thing I can think of is to run water through a hang on filter, with a little bit of ammonia-removing zeolith in it...?

I also read Chris&Barb say that the protozoan stayed sequestered in their system for 6+ months after they'd removed all their clams. That is very bad news...how does anyone eradicate this infection, in that case?

It sure will be nice when Barry can post what the best treatment is.

 

[chris&barb]

that's good to hear.

I set up my 10g QT and started dosing the Prazi-pro for the 1 remaining crocea. (I found a brief summary of the treatment on post #313 of the thread Nikki posted.) The instructions on the bottle say to pull out GAC/GFO, and to not use a skimmer, but to "continue filtration." I wonder what that means? The only thing I can think of is to run water through a hang on filter, with a little bit of ammonia-removing zeolith in it...?

I also read Chris&Barb say that the protozoan stayed sequestered in their system for 6+ months after they'd removed all their clams. That is very bad news...how does anyone eradicate this infection, in that case?

It sure will be nice when Barry can post what the best treatment is.

i lost 12 of 20 clams at the height of my PM ordeal. i tried every treatment from iodine, metro to prazi and none of them worked. i finally got rid of it and have been PM free for a few years by just adding a ton of carbon in a very high flow reactor. for me the condition cleared up over night.