ZEOvit

[bobgoode]

Mike, your reef is an outstanding example. Different methods can produce similar results. What I've sensed with using this system is the ability to control nutrients in an easy, precise, nonlaborous way & at the same time maintain SPS coloration. Other than adding the components[1min] & pumping the filter handle 10-15x's[30sec.],there is little else required. The 5% water changes[ZEOvit recommendation]per wk. is actually less than I was doing before using the system & now that the aquarium is squeeky clean, there is much less time devoted to husbandry chores. All these advantages will allow the marketplace the choice to determine whether it's worthy. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Bo I am not questioning the Zeovits systems worthyness. The system promotes a nutrient free concept, this is something I have been pushing for a long time.
An SPS tank with very low nutrients will reduce the fertilization of the zoox population in the corals, this will allow pigments to become more previlent and thus look more colorful. In that concept thier are several means to accomplish it, Zeovit might also be an effcet means for this.
In the case of your system your husbandry choirs have obviously been reduced, If I were to go with the Zeovit system, my husbandry choirs would increase. So I guess on that front it would depend on which current system you are coming from.
Although I find this Zeovit system to be very interesting, I am going to take a wait and see approach. With the additives included in the system I become leary, as I do not know thier contents (I understand the patent thing, and its just a personal opinion) nor thier long term effect on our tanks. But the overall concept of lowering nutrients and maintaining a clean tank is hard to go against.


MIke

 

[bobgoode]

Mike, I've always said never give up a sure thing for a possibility. ZEOvit system IS not for everyone & everyone will not automatically be successful. For you & Jerel, & others who do not have to work at maintaining a beautiful reef, there might not be an advantage. Time will tell. Remember, Jerel's already had one recent tank crash, so maybe the bb system is all he needs. I can tell you that it [bb]did not do enough for me & others will be in my situation, so maybe ZEOvit allows us average reefers the chance to enjoy a beautiful, colorful reef. Bob

 

[bobgoode]

Those interested in the possible zeolite mechanisms in aquaria, an informative article appears in www.wetmedia.com by Jens Kallmeyer. It's from the same website that Alexander Girz's article on ZEOvit is currently appearing. Bob

 

[bobgoode]

Sorry, everyone, I'm really not good at this, but let's try this: www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3/zeovit/Zeolite_Filters/Zeolite_Filters.htm Bob

 

[Curtswearing]

Therefore, by adding a carbon source, all bacteria in the tank receive some additional food. But as those bacteria that sit on the Zeolite get the ammonia much easier and in much greater quantity than others in the tank, they can make much better "profit" from the carbon addition. To speed up the starting of these filters, some companies offer bacterial starter cultures, although their usefulness is debatable.

The link just said that the bacterial starter cultures usefulness is debatable. I personally don't think it is debatable at all.....I think the bacterial culture is a complete waste of money. If the environment is right for bacteria, then bacteria will already be there. As long as they have a food source and proper environment, their population will grow until either the food source or their "homes" are exhausted. Then they will die. Another bacterium will take over the dead microbe's home and will die. This will continue over and over again. Basically, while their population is always in flux, there will also always be an equilibrium. Adding additional bacteria will just cause other bacteria to starve and die quicker. The system tries to solve this by adding food for the bacteria to help them live a little longer. Then because they recommend heavy skimming, the use of carbon, and water changes, they remove these organics. Why not just do the last line I typed and save your money for corals??? Sure it will work but it isn't a particularly cost effective method IMO.

I read the other link and the instructions say to change the zeolites every 6 to 8 weeks. I don't understand this one bit.....if the product was doing what they claim, the time period would have to be much shorter. I would think they would be completely worthless at Ammonium adsorption within a week (maybe two) as soon as they are completely coated by a biofilm. This is not the fault of the zeolite...it happens with granular activated carbon as well. Anything we put in our tanks provides housing and as long as there is sufficient food, the microbial population will grow. I've seen polls on internet boards where people change their carbon once a month. What they are doing is cleaning the water for a week or two and providing a home for bacteria for the rest of the month. This is why I recommend using smaller amounts of GAC and changing it more often or just use it periodically.

These bacteria have been on this earth for a long time and they are darned good at survival skills. If you look at your glass, there is anaerobic denitrification going on right in front of your eyes. Even though the biofilm is invisible to your eyes, it is thick enough to house anaerobic bacteria....they don't only live at the bottom of a DSB or in the center of your LR.

I finally understand how the basics of how this system works but I'm still not impressed. If you like the system that's great but I won't be recommending it to anyone. I guess I'm just cheap and there are much more cost effective ways to accomplish the same goals.

 

[bobgoode]

Curt, different people, different tanks. That's OK. The Zeobak contains multiple bacterial strains. Are they effective? are they useless? I don't really know nor do you. I do know that I have a 500g system that I have been dosing bak now for 4mos. & still have that bottle 1/2 full, so it's expense is not an overwhelming concern in whether one should use it as part of this system or not. Bob

 

[DonW]

Did the majority of the people that started using it with results also upgrade their skimmer or switch to a euo type skimmer?
Has anyone tried it without all the chemicals and bacteria suppliments?

Don

 

[DonW]

Below is a copy and paste of a email I receive this morning. Bear in mind this is not a fish guy but he does know water.

Don,
I did read the information you gave me earlier this week. The theory is nothing new and has been used in coastal region wastewater management for years. The user guide implies that the Zeolites are special in some way, I doubt it. In order to prevent saturation you will need two types. The only concern should be whether or not it absorbs ammonia. Although it appears to be a good system, it does seem skewed to insure long term profit to the inventor. If you separate the two zones there really is no need to add bacteria.
The below sketch should be a sound biological filter using Zeolites in salt or brackish water. The Upper area would be gulf area Zeolites the lower being standard US. To put it simply the gulf will absorb ammonia while the standard will not. Over time the lower area will become a great bacterial breeding ground. These bacteria will eat the ammonia without the rock becoming saturated to quickly. The upper area is the disposable media. It will quickly absorb any ammonia that passes by the lower area. It also will become a biological are if left alone. The main purpose of the upper area is final sterilization only. The lower media can be washed and reused the upper must be disposed of.
There is nothing in quality grade Zeolites that should hurt marine life. I would suggest the use of small amount of pelletized carbon if you’re uncomfortable. You do need to pre filter the water some how. The less decaying solids the better.

Try ¼ to ½ liter of each changing the upper media every two weeks. Rinse the lower media in fresh saltwater every 4 weeks. I almost forgot the media. The upper media can be purchased at the pond supply on Canyon and 115th marketed as Ammo-Rocks. The lower media can be purchased at the pool supply place around the corner from your shop, I think its called Aqua Quip.


PS My truck is still running great.


Wastewater Management
City of Lakewood

 

[Curtswearing]

The Zeobak contains multiple bacterial strains. Are they effective? are they useless? I don't really know nor do you.

Correct. I'm not a chemist nor a biologist...I'm a bean-counter. I'm also very opinionated but I'm an opinionated person willing to listen to others. Maybe I'm completely wrong....I truly don't think so at this point but ya always have to leave that possibility out there....as soon as you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, then you've gone off the deep-end. I laid out my argument for why I don't feel adding bacteria is useful but I could be wrong.

 

[bobgoode]

Don, most of the zeo-users to my knowledge, have not made any other changes in their system. A efficient skimmer is advantageous with any method, whether it be recirculating, beckett-venturi, etc....Curt,if my response offended you, that was it my intent. I respect your opinion, as I said above. I can not prove "theory" here & it's fruitless to try. I can only report my experience with this method & I am happy to continue do so as I understand it. Bob

 

[Curtswearing]

Nope...no offense taken here. I was just reporting my qualifications (or lack thereof) based on your very good point of not being able to prove it one way nor the other.

 

[FishyinKy]

Okay I totally don't get this. Dang I thought I was fairly intelligent but this entire discussion is way to confusing. Will someone please take the rhetoric out of this and the selling parts of it and Please explain to me EXACTLY what this is supposed to do and WHY its so successful? Why it takes the time its supposed to take? Why it should be that certain set limit of time? How you would test to see if it does what its supposed to? Whether it effects phosphates or not? Does it have to have a set saline level to be more effective or less effective? If the salt levels fluctuate in the tank will that make a difference? Sorry for all the questions
Mac

 

[bobgoode]

FishyinKy, YHPM, Bob

 

[NaH2O]

Bob - are you keeping the good stuff to yourself??

 

[bobgoode]

:lol: Now Nikki, I wouldn't do that. I pointed out a detailed ZEOvit reference to help answer Fishy questions. Bob

 

[FishyinKy]

Yes he did BUT I must add that what i really wanted was something simple. Ah well time to go learn lol.

 

[mojoreef]

Ahh I see this thread still has life.

Bob I am pissed at ya!!!!!!!!!! all this time and I havent seen one picture of your tank, lol. Have you got any handy?? i would love to see this process chronicled..that I and I want to see your tank

Mike

 

[reedman]

What ever happened to this?

Can this system be used in pieces (i.e. to remove P and N from the system)?

I gather from the site that the system is designed to produce a very low nutrient system. That's great! My question is: When you use a zeolite it is an ion exchange. What is the ion that is being left behind when the zeolite binds the P or N?

-Reed

 

[FinsReef]

Zeovit

You can use the Amino Acids,Iron or Iodide supplement without using the other parts of zeo, but for the best results, you need the Zeovit,Bak,food and start. They Amino Acids will help with growth rates, but not as much as in a ZEO run tank.
Hope this helps