Phosphate Remover Article

[tamarindthai]

after quit RP for 2 1/2 month(now using phosgard)majono is coming back 10-15 of them is start to blooming,,well what you guy think?(kill them with RP,,also kill my sps?).

 

[Scooterman]

After reading this agin, I've been soaking & rinsing my Rowa phos in RO/Di until they muck clears but this takes quite a bit of water, is there better methods of doing this, & just how clear do you rinse your Rowa Phos?

 

[dgasmd]

OK, after reading this entire thread and the countless ones in RC and other places, I'll tell you my opinion as I see it. Remember, it is only an opinion and you should take it as that. So is the "experience" of thers in those posts you all reference to:

-Lowering the PO4 too fast so the coral can't handle it is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while. That is the environment the coral come from, spawn in, grow in, and multiply in. So how is it that all of the sudden after being in crappy water for 2-30 days while i transit before it makes it to your tank all of the suddent the good quality water its entire life has known is bad? Just kaka

-The countless heards of people with RTN are likely less than a dozen altogether. At least in the most common posts we all read. They just post the same thing 50 times, so it sounds like 200 people.

-This new products?
Rowaphos has been used in reef tanks in europe continiously for many many years. It is new to the US market though, at least to the internet masses as lots of people were using it before anyway. Very few european guys have reported problems with it at all. The minor changes in alkalinity and pH have been known, but the changes have been so subtle I can't possibly see how that is the key either. You would be usprised how many people just dump a bucket of fresh tap water daily into their tank to replace evaportion or how about the ones dosing b-ionic daily that have their levels of alk and Ca go up and down several times daily.

-Do we need something in the first place?
Yes, I don't think anyone one of us runs a tank without a single fish. Even if you did, you would still have a surplus of PO4.

-The study shows rowa is better than phosban:
Completely wrong in all counts. Months ago I read the study made for rowa where they claim it is better. Not only was the study of very poor design and extremely biased, but it really showed nothing that was statisticly significant. Bob should remember it since I forwarded it to him then. I had a discussion with Holmes-Farley about it too and he couldn't agree more in the poor design of the study and on how the test showed nothing that was statisticly significant for them to claim such superiority. The other tests done here, more specificly the Harker test, was also extremely poor to say the least. Despite the tests, you need to remember tests are not supposed to prove anything, but to rather support or not support a theory. What is proof to you may not be to me. In other words, there is nothing so far that shows convincing superiority of one over the other.

-Do the rowaphos, phosban, and the generic ferric oxides work?
You bet they do. It is also my suspicion they all work the same for our purposes and means. You need to remember this stuff was originally made and used for (still is) to purify water and remove silica and arsenic. PO4 removal is just a byproduct.

-Which should I use?
My opinion is that whichever happens to be cheaper will likely work the same for your end result. I personally have been using Phosban because it is cheaper. The moment rowa becomes the same price, I will toss a coin to decide which one.

-Should I buy the expensive Deltec reactor or run it in a bag?
If it makes you feel better and makes you believe you are doing better, by all means buy the most expensive reactor you can find. So long as you can gently move the media with the water goin through it, it does not matter what the sticker says outside. Using it in a bag is likely a huge waste of your money. Just an opinion.

I'll stop there since my fngers are hurting. :lol: :lol:

 

[Scooterman]

Using it in a bag is likely a huge waste of your money.

Why & how do you determine this? If water is pouring through it, what is the dif? Does this apply to carbon also?

 

[dgasmd]

This media is no different than carbon or any other media. It needs exposure to the running water. put stuff in a bag and you are packing it. The water is likely to hit mostly the ouside are and not penetrate into the clump much. Is there water in the middle of the clump? Yes, but its turn over is likely very very little. Is there water at the bottom or middle of a DSB? yes, but the same applies.

This is all opinion like I said as I have not done any tests to prove it. Neither has anyone else for that matter. I personally will rn carbon and PO4 reducing media in a fluidized chamber. I find it personally more efficient.

 

[gobie]

When 2 Lil Fishies Came Out With Their Reactor I Recieved One In The Mail.granted No Matter What Phosphate Media You Use In This Reactor It Will Reduce. I Still Use The Kent Marine Cause I Have Refugia,and I Don't Wanna Starve Out My Caulerpa. It Is However A Pain In The Ass To Open Up And Clean Out. If I Had To Purchase This Item It Would Go Into The Room With All The Other Crap I Bought Over The Years Go With What Is Readily Avalable In Your Neck Of The Woods Put It In A Nylon/mesh Bag In A High Flow Area And Call It Good. Alt Of Times We Make Things A Lot Harder Than They Have To Be.

 

[dgasmd]

When 2 Lil Fishies Came Out With Their Reactor I Recieved One In The Mail. It Is However A Pain In The Ass To Open Up And Clean Out. If I Had To Purchase This Item It Would Go Into The Room With All The Other Crap I Bought Over The Years

Very true. I have 2 in my 60g cube and they make you want to drink when I have to clean them out.

 

[Scooterman]

That is all I wanted, some logic to your statement, sounds reasonable to me

How much do you rinse out your media? Rowa phos is muddy for some time when I rinse it with RO/DI water, I feel some of it is being wasted but I know I don't want that stuff to stay in my tank.

 

[gobie]

Here Is A Good Rule Of Thumb Dont Waste Ro Di Water On The First Rinse.i Take A 5gal Bucket In Utility Tub/shower And Run Reactor To Get The Muddinest Out.this May Take A Few Times Trust Me, Why Waste The Money
Using Allyour Ro/di Water . Do Finial Rinse With Di Water And Your Set Like I Said Earlier What Ever Is Easiest Is Your Best Method.

 

[dgasmd]

I have never rinsed phosban, but will the next time to see if I notice any difference.

 

[gobie]

if you don't rinse than do you let the eef ank water turn muddy?

 

[dgasmd]

That has never been my experience, so it is something I was not concerned with.

 

[gobie]

SINCE YOU LIVE IN FL. AND LIL FISHIES IS YOUR NEIGHBOOR IS YOUR PHOSBAN STILLREAAL WET WHEN YOU RECIEVE It?

 

[Scooterman]

Rowa Phos may be different, it is more like coffee grinds. If you rinse any of these products in anything other than pure water, wouldn't it start absorbing the phosphates in the un-purfied water?

 

[gobie]

have you tested your water supply it usually depends where you are in the country and as far as rining ist not like running it like on your tank this is just to remove the dust and being under pressure of powerhead this takes very little time so the capture of po4 is going to be minimal at most. besides, if your using ro do you use a di with it if not you are still inporting po4 into your system.

 

[Scooterman]

If you ever try to rinse Rowa Phos, you can't just do it quickly, it has tons of gunk, I do use RO/DI.

 

[gobie]

I 've Heard This Beore. So What You Say Is Not Surprising. Like I Say I Dont Use The Stuff. I Use Either Seachem Or Kent Marine Phosphate Remover. I Tried The 2 Lil Fishies Stuff Also Found It To Be Apain Rinsing. So I 've Kept With What Works For Me . You Have To Ask Your Self Is All This Effort Worth All The Extra Work It Takes To Clean It Out.

I Say If You Really Want To Get Answers Check Out Some European Reef Forums Or Get In Touch With The Distributior . Just Remember What Ever Works For You Is Best.

I Use The White Stuff Rinse It After Use And Put It In My Garden Or House Plants. Only Because It Works For Me

 

[dgasmd]

SINCE YOU LIVE IN FL. AND LIL FISHIES IS YOUR NEIGHBOOR IS YOUR PHOSBAN STILLREAAL WET WHEN YOU RECIEVE It?

Nope. Regardless of where you are in the country, it comes dry. That is how it is packaged and shipped.

 

[RedEyeReef]

I 've Heard This Beore. So What You Say Is Not Surprising. Like I Say I Dont Use The Stuff. I Use Either Seachem Or Kent Marine Phosphate Remover. I Tried The 2 Lil Fishies Stuff Also Found It To Be Apain Rinsing. So I 've Kept With What Works For Me . You Have To Ask Your Self Is All This Effort Worth All The Extra Work It Takes To Clean It Out.

I Say If You Really Want To Get Answers Check Out Some European Reef Forums Or Get In Touch With The Distributior . Just Remember What Ever Works For You Is Best.

I Use The White Stuff Rinse It After Use And Put It In My Garden Or House Plants. Only Because It Works For Me

I thought the white PO4 removers like Seachem Or Kent Marine released aluminum into our tanks?

 

[gobie]

this is true about the aluminum release into tank. this only happens after it starts to break down back into clay and I take out media long before this happens. this can also happen if not rinsed properly. all po4 media is a clay of some sort. it will all break down and all will realease some sort of by product into tank. it's a simpel law of physics
water + motion = the most errosive source on this planet.
besides I never leave it more than 24 hours.Besides the size of water changes I do every 3 weeks takes care of any buildup 25 gal/75 gal tank