Phosphate Remover Article

[bobgoode]

Mike, absolutely, your suggestion about Fe particles may actually have been a factor in my case for the first time I used RP, I did not bleed out the initial effluent & my water was completely rust colored for several hrs. Bob

 

[NaH2O]

if the particles were captured by mucus netting, brought into the coral, the nutrient causes an immediate zoox bloom, leading to a brown out. Some corals can handle the zoox population increase, and just brown up, while others begin to go into emergency mood and expell their zoox, meltdown then rtn.

Great thought. I could definately buy that. I was amazed at the amount of brown water in the bucket before I put the reactor on my tank. I wonder how many people that had issues did not wait for the effluent to clear before use?

 

[mojoreef]

Yea when I flushed mine in the bath tub, it was brutal. With the particle being that size it is perfect for intake. This product was originally designed for fish systems (hobby wise anyway), so I can see a problem under those circumstances, But man in a coral tank, thats tough stuff.


Mike

 

[bobgoode]

Mike, all the Acroporas were sliming during the time period of rusty water. I really like your explanation. One problem though is that some of the guys did bleed off their initial outflow & still developed RTN--just too many other variables there for us to know tho. My German counterpart says that RP did cause RTN over there. He believes also that Fe is leached back into the water maybe at a much higher conc. than normal use as Nikki has suggested. Mike, not sure I understand the Florida comment. Bob

 

[NaH2O]

Maybe the dust isn't enough for us to see well. Also, I wonder if it is more of a placement issue....easy for the dust to make it into the main tank. If this is a possibility then could the issue be solved by placing a low micron filter on the output of the fluidized reactor?

 

[bobgoode]

Good thinking, Nikki. but, again, most of us used barrier padding at the RP outflow nozzle or o/w you'll have iron granules all over the place :exclaim: Bob

 

[NaH2O]

hmmm....on my fluidized reactor there is a pad that acts as a barrier prior to the return to the tank (or in my case on the fuge), but nothing on the end of the tube. I was imagining a very small micron - 5 or so at the end of the outflow tube. Maybe the pads are still allowing too much "dust" to pass.

 

[bobgoode]

Nikki, now I see where you'll going. I'm not convinced that iron dust per se is at the root cause for those of us who have had RP-RTN. I feel it's mostly an relatively rapid unbalanced reduction of one of the nutrients in water chemistry. Mike's theory is interesting but brown-outs to RTN doesn't match with the actual events that some of us have experienced. Remember, my two brwn-outs never RTN'ed & others have not had iron dust or granules flow out into their water but nonetheless had RTN occur. You mentioned somewhere along the line about circular topics...well, this is one of those. If iron is at cause it will be through chemical ionic changes at the molecular level. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Bob from what I saw the particles were of various sizes, right down to microscopic. I ran mine for almost a three days. On the Fe leaching back into the water column that would be automatic. You get particles in thier and its a bacterial bonanza. Which would become another source for food chain entry.
On the German thing, most of the users over thier were fish only guys, until Saxby jump on board.
On the Florida thing, the big problem they had over thier was in part caused by sands blowing off the Sahara desert and being carried across the ocean by the el ninio. the sand along with carring bacterial infectation was loaded with Fe.

Like I said just a thought.

Mike

 

[bobgoode]

Mike, it's tuff disagreeing with the boss but since you entered Saxby into this, there are several instances both in Germany & England of SPS-keepers who have experienced increase RTN during RP use. On RC threads[can I mention that?] both of their countrymen have posts to this problem. My point, Mike, while you've had success with the product, it's not been the panecea that many had hoped for & we have an responsibility to let fellow SPS-keepers know both sides. Thnx. for the Fl. explanation. Bob

 

[tamarindthai]

i had used RP for 1-1/2 month,,ran it through fluidizer in very beginning very slowly (was phosgard ),,no effected ,,po4 down almost=0,,better color to all SPS,?

 

[mojoreef]

Bob I totally agree I am not trying to promote the product, Just trying to put a possibility towards what may be one source. Has thier been any problem associated with the Phosban product???

Mike

 

[NaH2O]

What is the alkaline coating on the rowaphos product (don't know if an answer to this is possible)? If no issues with phosban have been reported, maybe the "wetness" is an issue?

 

[Curtswearing]

Yes, people have complained about Phosban too. However, everything is anecdotal at this point and no tests have been done.

 

[bobgoode]

Mike, I have hear similar instances with PB on the other forum I have not used PB, only RP which is more effective in lowering P04's further in tests after PB had been used--don't have the tests results, just recall this from RC. Nikki, I originally had the "wetting method" report from Doug Thompson a Deltec distributor. He's presently diving in Fiji this week Maybe I can retrieve this info from Doug upon his return. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Bob you can say RC here no problem bud, even carry banners for other boards, we try not to play those games here.

mike

 

[Jimbo]

I've been using phosban for about a month now and noticed coral bleaching also. I did loose a portion of some cat's paw. Although at the time was unsure what was happening I assumed the P was being removed to rapidly. So I added 6 more fish to my tank and feed more often now. After a week many corals have shown increased growth better polyp extension and most have colored up. I would consider my tank nutrient poor to start with.

It may not be a low P problem but a ORP issue, but my solution worked, of course the extra organics are lowering ORP if thats the issue and if it's a P issue same deal, time released organics (more fish). From my observations of my tank I think the ORP is high by indications algea coloration and growth (not much) and what does grow has a washed out color, I've seen several tanks that used ORP controllers and there tanks just have a certain look.

I have a P test kit on the way, I ran out of nitrate tests, so have that on the way also. I would like a ORP meter, but the cheap ones are probally worthless.

 

[big t]

Hey Jimbo, Welcome to RF Bud. It is good to see ya on here, as I know that you are a valuable DIY resource. If you get a chance can you post some of your good ideas over here?

 

[bobgoode]

Jimbo, Salifert's P04 tests are difficult to read & therefore too subjective. Hanna has a P04 photometer, with noise of .04 at~$160. None test for organic P04's, so we're always somewhat in the dark. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Bob anything come of this??? Has anyone come up with a theory on this problem??


Mike