Sump ver 2.0

[jrgilles]

I found an easy way to do them all at once.

Put the tank on end, then stack stuff up until the first baffle, silicone in. Add a 1" spacer (ie. a book), put the second one in, another spacer, then third, etc.

Anyway, you do it standing on end instead of sitting in its normal position. Makes it way faster.

 

[jrgilles]

Here we go, knew I had a pic somewhere

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Q-LjZ2W9bmGsgUp1owS5cA?feat=directlink

 

[Ichthys]

Overflow may cause divorce

OK Sump ver 2.5 is up and running and the new overflow is in place. Flow is aprox 500 gph through the sump and the overflow is handling it nicely. Problem is that the overflow is VERY loud. If not fixed quickly I may be the only homeless guy at the Mission with a reef tank under his arm..

I cannot do a stockman or a durso because the overflow is low profile only 2 x 2" in the drain section.. I need advice FAST.. I have tried everything and the only thing that quiets it down is diverting water back in sump without it flowing back to tank, which defeats the purpose, if i was happy with 200 gph i wouldnt have made the new sump...

Does anyone have for sale, or know where i can buy locally a overflow capable of 600gph that is big enough to fit a durso or stockman?
Thanks for helping me save the marriage
Ichy

ps. I found this on Ebay, but i really dont believe that box is doing 800gph. 800gph thru a 1 inch bulkhead with no noise is suspect..
http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-STEALTH-Q...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f00ef32b4

 

[Ichthys]

Getting tired of sump by trial and error

OK, after even MORE reading, I find that i had MIS read something on http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html and was shooting for 10 times tanks size in flow thru the sump. After reading more including the following post from skimerwhisperer

"just for the record, i personally dont go for more than 5x through the sump, more like 3x...it's a waste of watts to provide your sump with more flow than what the filters you employ require. most skimmers dont process more than 250-400gph of water, if they are pin/needle/mesh wheel, most media reactors dont want more than 100-150gph going through them, unless your doing bio pellets. it's a common mistake to attempt to use the sump return pump to provide the high flow the display tank requires. those watts should be used for in-tank flow. "

It is now back to the drawing board, Sump ver 3.0 and adding a new closed loop system to provide flow in tank, scaling back sump flow to 2-300 gph...

Anyone have any input on closed loops.. http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

 

[mfinn]

Using a over-the-top suction for a closed loop is a easy way of getting water to a pump without having to drill the tank.
I use one that sends water to a couple of sea-swirls.
I have used the scwd melev uses in the link, and am not happy with them. They really cut down the amount of flow the pump puts out.
There are several very small powerheads you can use for flow.
Tunze nano streams are great for this.

 

[jrgilles]

Do you have a gate or ball valve on your drain line? If so, put in a second overflow box with a straight shot to the sump and set up a herbie style drain (google herbie drain.)

You need 2 overflows for this, but it runs completely silent. You turn the ball valve on the main drain until it slightly backs up (no air in the line, full syphon.) The second drain takes the tiny trickle of water that accumulates from the backed up main drain.

Anyway, thats what I'm running. 650 GPH, completely silent.

 

[psb]

Rob, you are the man...always so helpful.

 

[jrgilles]

lol, I just troll the forums all day

 

[mfinn]

It is now back to the drawing board, Sump ver 3.0 and scaling back sump flow to 2-300 gph...

I'd stay with this idea.

 

[TJL]

Ichthys, if you are back to square one using a 40g as sump/fuge IMO save your money and skip the traditional CL and utilize your return pump for needed flow. I have a 40R acrylic that is approx 4/5 lighted fuge (24/7) and 1/5 cryptic fuge separated with a black acrylic baffle. My system pump is an Iwaki WMD30RLXT producing about 950gph, 27x + per hour through fuge stuffed with Caulerpa species & Chaeto over a mud/sand bed. I made a spraybar out of 1-1/4" PVC at end of drain into sump to evenly disperse accross fuge. The macros act as a bubble trap and have done extremely well in high-flow as have the abundant pod population. I have a heavily stocked mixed reef in which I feed the fish generously and have no Nitrates or Phosphates to speak of but because of all the macro do need to dose Iodine (Lugol's Sollution)
Anthony Calfo and others have discussed the benefits of having higher flow rates through fuges and have dismissed the 2-5x myth (on the natural reef macro algaes thrive in heavy flow areas) here is an insert from one of Anthony's earlier posts on RF on a piece about SPS coral Stylophora.
For me... I dont keep as heavy of a fish load in my tanks as I recommend. Subsequently, I depend heavier on my DSB, refugium and the (heavy) feedings of my invertebrates collectively with hope (I have not measured this, of course... its beyond my skills/equipment) that I am supplying enough feeding opportunities incidentally in the process. More bacteria, more larvae from infauna (in my sand/rocks, etc), more mucus/"floc", etc.

In plain language - a regugium and/or deep sand bed is a small but useful and important support, but not the principal means of feeding Stylophora here.

I have seen and can imagine a number of different ways in which aquarists succeed with the keeping and growing of this beautiful coral:

- bare-bottomed tanks with lots of rock and a heavy fish and/or invert load (feeding them)

- DSB with light fish load but heavy water flow and (likely) strong feeding of other inverts (LPS, seastars, shrimp, etc)

- either or neither of the above scenarios, but with a large refugium that has good (over)flow... none of this piddly 10X per hour turnover or less Real water flow... 20X+

There are many successfull ways of reefkeeping and to me the ideal system would be to have a high-flow fuge seperate from an equipment sump as well as a high flow frag/growout tank all plumbed into DT as you would a multiple closed loop system. This also happens to be my actual plans for a larger system of 500-700+ gallons overall which I hope to start as early as next spring. Here are a few older pics of my existing fuge set-up.

Todd

 

[mfinn]

There is a big difference between having lots of flow in the refugium and too much flow through the sump.
Ichthys has already found some of the problems with too much flow through the sump, and there are others.
I glad you are getting results from a high flow sump, but for many the opposite is true.

I've been a diyer for 25+ years in the saltwater hobby and and started in freshwater 45 years ago and I do know that what works for one may not work for another.

 

[Ichthys]

27x + ?

Ichthys, if you are back to square one using a 40g as sump/fuge IMO save your money and skip the traditional CL and utilize your return pump for needed flow. I have a 40R acrylic that is approx 4/5 lighted fuge (24/7) and 1/5 cryptic fuge separated with a black acrylic baffle. My system pump is an Iwaki WMD30RLXT producing about 950gph, 27x + per hour through fuge stuffed with Caulerpa species & Chaeto over a mud/sand bed. I made a spraybar out of 1-1/4" PVC at end of drain into sump to evenly disperse accross fuge. The macros act as a bubble trap and have done extremely well in high-flow as have the abundant pod population. I have a heavily stocked mixed reef in which I feed the fish generously and have no Nitrates or Phosphates to speak of but because of all the macro do need to dose Iodine (Lugol's Sollution)
Anthony Calfo and others have discussed the benefits of having higher flow rates through fuges and have dismissed the 2-5x myth (on the natural reef macro algaes thrive in heavy flow areas) here is an insert from one of Anthony's earlier posts on RF on a piece about SPS coral Stylophora.
For me... I dont keep as heavy of a fish load in my tanks as I recommend. Subsequently, I depend heavier on my DSB, refugium and the (heavy) feedings of my invertebrates collectively with hope (I have not measured this, of course... its beyond my skills/equipment) that I am supplying enough feeding opportunities incidentally in the process. More bacteria, more larvae from infauna (in my sand/rocks, etc), more mucus/"floc", etc.

In plain language - a regugium and/or deep sand bed is a small but useful and important support, but not the principal means of feeding Stylophora here.

I have seen and can imagine a number of different ways in which aquarists succeed with the keeping and growing of this beautiful coral:

- bare-bottomed tanks with lots of rock and a heavy fish and/or invert load (feeding them)

- DSB with light fish load but heavy water flow and (likely) strong feeding of other inverts (LPS, seastars, shrimp, etc)

- either or neither of the above scenarios, but with a large refugium that has good (over)flow... none of this piddly 10X per hour turnover or less Real water flow... 20X+

There are many successfull ways of reefkeeping and to me the ideal system would be to have a high-flow fuge seperate from an equipment sump as well as a high flow frag/growout tank all plumbed into DT as you would a multiple closed loop system. This also happens to be my actual plans for a larger system of 500-700+ gallons overall which I hope to start as early as next spring. Here are a few older pics of my existing fuge set-up.

Todd

I am curious, how do you get that much flow out of your tank, I am guessing its drilled with multiple 2 inch bulkheads. I know you're not getting that much flow from the silly little 1 inch HOB overflows I use...

 

[TJL]

I am using two 1" bulkheads that drop into a 1-1/4 " spraybar at end of sump/fuge. My whole sump is utilized as a fuge 4/5 lit and 1/5 cryptic the heater and HOB skimmer are on back of DT as it is a System II style with built in partitioned back like a bio-cube. I had to modify/increase cuts in the stock overflow comb as well as drill additional 1/4" holes along upper back into overflow chamber to handle the 950+- gph ( 1140-gph less head). As stated earlier, my future plans for a large system will have three seperate tanks used for sump, fuge & grow-out. The fuge & growout tanks will be High -Flow 25-30x and the sump will be a more moderate 5-7x. I have ran high-flow sumps for about 15 years or so with much success but have had a few issues in fine tuning some skimmers especially some of the Old School airstone driven units but with well placed partitions was able to make do.

Finn, I to have been keeping saltwater fish since the late seventies and freshwater since 1967 ( 10g w/ Kribensis Chiclids and Cory cats ). I started my first of many Berlin Style reeftanks in 1982. And like you and a few other 'Old Salts' here on RF try to teach as many newbs to the hobby that I can that there Are many different effective ways to be a successfull reefkeeper. And to that IMHO in order of importance Water Quality #1, Water Flow #2, Quality Lighting #3 and does not really seem to matter how they are achieved as long as all 3 are.
My most successfull reeftanks of the past were reverse flow undergravel systems using 'Little Giant' chemical pumps directed up through DIY egg-crate & vinyl screen plates, surface skimmed drain made out of 2 to 2-1/2" PVC plumbed directly back into pump. Other than abundant hair algae ( from 4-6K halide or VHO lighting ) never had a major crash and made alot critical errors learning the cans & cannots of fish and coral compatability.

Todd

P.S. I would like to arrange a get together for a bunch of us 'Old Salts' some time at maybe a centralized watering hole or ??? Mike Shifton is close by me and knows most of you south-enders plus maybe get Michael from Spokane to carpool over with another or two. PM me with interest and I'll see what I can come up with that works out for everyone interested.

 

[mfinn]

Could be a cool get together.