Sump ver 2.0

[Ichthys]

OK so I DIY my first sump, it was simple 10 gal tank with 3 baffle bubble trap separating drain and return. The problem I had was the return pump section (RPS) was only about 5 inches wide and the width of a 10 gal tank so water volume was rather small in this section. The effects of evaporation manifest in this section of the sump, meaning that evap for my entire system causes water level in the RPS to drop 5 inches a day, causing a large fall over the bubble trap baffle, causing MICROBUBBLES in my RPS! In playing with waterflow in tanks on the back deck I have determined that a final fall off the last baffle into the RPS of over 1 inch induces water bubbles into the RPS (depending on flow). The problem is that the fall distance breaks the water line, driving air down into the water in form of bubbles. Seems like the only solution is to have a LARGER return section to minimize how many inches evap causes RPS water level to drop. I know i could use auto top off but havent gotten that far yet. I am building new BIGGER sump (ver 2.0) and putting it in garage on its own rack. Will have a 10 gallon fuge on separate pump and overflow plumbed into it. was also thinking of fuge in sump, on opposite side of skimmer with return section in the middle, but again, I am VERY concerned about introducing bubbles into the reurn section of my sump. (have attached rough sketch of design plan)

How do other people deal with the bubbles created in the reurn section by the water fall off the last baffle of bubble trap?
Thanks
Ichy

 

[DonW]

I'd move an ato up on the list, they are simple and cheap anyone can make their own. Ive never used baffels in any of my sumps, more hastle than their worth. A filter sock takes care of all bubbles.

Don

 

[mfinn]

I like using baffles when adding a refugium to a sump. Helps keep the macro out of the return pump and helps eliminate micro bubbles when not using a filter sock, which I don't like.
However a good ato is a really solves alot of problems.

On my sumps (all of them), I like using the end chamber for the return area, having the flow in the sump all go one way. Eliminates the need for 2 drain lines.
Skimmer section>refugium section>return section.

 

[Ichthys]

one way flow

I like using baffles when adding a refugium to a sump. Helps keep the macro out of the return pump and helps eliminate micro bubbles when not using a filter sock, which I don't like.
However a good ato is a really solves alot of problems.

On my sumps (all of them), I like using the end chamber for the return area, having the flow in the sump all go one way. Eliminates the need for 2 drain lines.
Skimmer section>refugium section>return section.

isnt the down side to that that you get total flow thru fuge? I have read that fuge flow should be drastically less than total sump flow. Mind you I am new to this, so i could be wrong.

 

[mfinn]

You only want 3x to 5x total tank volume through the sump.
How much were you planning?

 

[burning2nd]

ato to the top of the list...

 

[Ichthys]

skimmer in the fuge?

If i am looking at that correctly dont you have your skimmer in your fuge? I thought i read somewhere that you want the fuge either after or separate from skimming, I forget what i read now, but something about the relationship between the two is important.

Ichy

ato to the top of the list...

 

[Ichthys]

PLease comment and critique

Objectives
1) Sump as place for filter sock, skimmer, heaters, and to provide tank turnover, as much as possible, 7 or 8 x tank volume per hour.


2) Fuge as place for nutrient extract and pod production with SLOW flow, maybe 1 times tank volume per hour? Or less?


3) Return to tank with ZERO and I mean ZERO microbubbles.


4) There seems to be no way to go inline with flow. Skim after fuge and you skim out all the good stuff the fuge produces. Fuge after skim and you skim out the nutrients the fuge needs to function. The only solution seems to be separate intakes to the fuge and skimmer, both then feeding the return. I am on a mission to eradicate all microbubbles from my tank (perhaps from the world), so return section in middle will have water level close to as high as the fuge and skimmer sections with an auto top off.

So who has a center return with fuge and skimmer on the outside style sump and what are your likes dislikes with it?

How to effectively split drain from tank? I can put a tee in the drain line with a valve in the portion going to fuge, not sure I like this though. Messing with drain line creates issues and may reduce flow through overflow bulkhead. I was also thinking of a separate fuge tank with its own drain from main tank and much smaller return pump.

 

[burning2nd]

yep your looking correctly, altho ive found the turn over rule is garbage,
microbubles arent bad...
a center return will only make you have to have exact same hight baffles, the end result is the same.

IMo the point of a sump is for equipment also i beleave that forum follows function, and it should be easiest as possible to use and maintain

 

[Ichthys]

microbubles arent bad...

microbubbles are of the devil.. lol

 

[mfinn]

IMo the point of a sump is for equipment also i beleave that forum follows function, and it should be easiest as possible to use and maintain

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

We each take parts of other peoples systems and make it our own.

 

[Ichthys]

ver 2.5 service release b

Well build 2 is in full swing, got a 40 gallon for a sump, have started siliconing baffles. Have opted for separate fuge tank, fuge will be a 20 gallon with its own plumbing and return. Comments or suggestions?

 

[psb]

Having a fuge and sump together isnt a problem. You mentioned that having the skimmer ahead of the fuge sucks out nutrients, etc. That is only true if your skimmer removes 100% of the dom which they never do and secondly, not all your volume of water goes into the skimmer so that is nothing to worry about. Generally, the fuge is in the middle and return at the end. Baffles in the fuge area cause a slow wide flow where particulates can settle out and be eaten by the microfauna. You dont put the equiptment in with the macro algae so that you avoid plugging pumps and skimmers. And the return is at the end.

One of the problems you addressed is ato and with the fact you like DIY. I made and installed my own ato for less than $10.00. I use a 12 gallon "rubbermaid" container with a 1/2 inch bulkhead and then bring threaded pipe out of it and put a threaded cap on the pipe with no plumbers tape. I adjust the tightness of the cap to change the leak rate. You will find that the surface tension of water will consistantly produce 1 gallon of freshwater to the sump or tank when it drips at the rate of a drip every four seconds. (You can confirm that online). Roughly one oz is 168 drops. So i also do my dosing of supplement via this system. I will put in 10 gallons of RODI water and since i know one gallon will drip in (my evap is about 1 gallon a day for my 100 gallon reef). I put my iodine, etc in the container. I dont put organic based item in container as i dont want algae, etc as it will plug the drip. So every 10 day i take the container and wipe it down, give a quick rinse to the threads and refill it. I love the system as it has no floats or electricity, so as long as gravity occurs(lol) i am good to go. I just give it quick visual when i feed and make any needed adjustments. I love the DIY idea and i have very little store bought equiptment. But I have had many failures and some sucesses.

 

[psb]

After looking at your design, I think there will be some challenges. One nice thing is having the filter sock where you have it as long as you can get to it easily and clean it easily. Otherwise it becomes a rotting sock or a ammonia, nitrite, nitrate factory. I would think through the overflow line back to the sump. Why do you need it and if you do need will it be easy to adjust as it will get filled with marine slime and junk and the flow will change. It also may be a way for your tank to siphon into your sump. Everything is hard to tell from the drawing. Best wishes.

 

[burning2nd]

thats a design i would rock.. except for the valve part, that IMO is a unnecessary hazard,


u can have a large single return pump with a tee and valve to control the flow to external setups... but then all of them can just drain back in to the side where the skimmer is...
one ATo, One return pump...

me personally i don't use filter socks, because all mechanical filtration is excess work

 

[jrgilles]

Looks good. I also have an external fuge. I have my tank drain split off into the fuge controlled by a ball valve. The fuge then overflows (drilled) into the return chamber of the sump (bypasses the skimmer section). I drilled 2 return lines, so incase one clogs, I have a backup a bit higher as flood insurance. You can cut holes in a 20 gal with a dremmel tool using a side cutting tile bit. Just keep it wet. Cheap bit (you'll need an 1/8-1/4" glass drill bit to get the started hole before you can side cut.) Anyway, a cheap alternative for small tanks.

If you wanna see pics, let me know.

 

[jrgilles]

I also put in a bubble tower where the drain line goes in, and have no filter sock. I have zero microbubbles. Bubble tower takes out all the air that comes in with the drain line, and what does get through can't make it past the baffles.

Could think about a bubble tower if you have any spare baffle material. I made mine out of scrap plexiglass. Just 2 pieces I glued together in an L shape, then siliconed into the corner where the drain lines come in. Put little one inch legs on it with more scrap plexiglass. It can be pretty crude, just has to stick in the corner.

 

[rainydave]

While we're on the subject of sumps.. I'm in the process of planning a sump using a 20l. Does anyone know of a good place to get glass panels in the Northend?

 

[mfinn]

Just go through the phone book and call the places that are close to you. Ask for salvage glass, it's usually cheaper if they have it.

 

[Ichthys]

Glass baffles

Sump ver 1.0 was a 10 gallon tank and I used 3 glass baffles I believe they were 10x8. I also had them cut a piece 10x47 for another project i was working on. I got it from Niemen Glass, Total cost was 45 bucks, I think the 3 baffles were 8 each so 24 dollars

Sump ver 2.0 is a 40 gallon. I was at Lowes and noticed they had glass so i bought 3 pieces 12 x 10 and 1 piece 12x15, total glass cost was 13.00. So the big box was much cheaper, HOWEVER, the glass from Neimans was 1/4 inch and the glass from Lowes was much thinner, I was told it was all they carried. It is kind of like picture frame glass. However seeing as they are baffles and will have close to the same pressure on both sides, I didnt see glass strength as an issue. Its siliconed up and drying, will let you know if the thinner glass was a mistake when i get it wet on Tuesday night, maybe tomorrow if I get inpatient... I know i know, nothing good happens in a reef fast, I should wait till Tuesday lol.
Ichy

PS siliconing baffles 1 inch apart is a major pain in the err well you know...